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2013-10-07T01:56:53  <sebhub> good morning
2013-10-07T02:35:26  <kiwichris_> sebhub, hi
2013-10-07T02:45:48  <sebhub> hi chris
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2013-10-07T10:07:53  <phipse> hi, just so I  don't write crap in my first paper, due to the single address space design, RTEMS cannot achieve the separation necessary to implement ARINC653, right?
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2013-10-08T01:48:31  <sebhub> good morning
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2013-10-08T04:53:46  <phipse> hi
2013-10-08T04:59:31  <phipse> gedare, do you have a second?
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2013-10-08T08:02:11  <gedare> phipse: i was asleep, what's up
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2013-10-08T08:29:36  <phipse> gedare: RTEMS can't support ARINC itself, because of the single address space model right?
2013-10-08T08:32:46  <gedare> yep
2013-10-08T08:32:49  <gedare> well
2013-10-08T08:32:59  <gedare> yes that is accurate enough to say.
2013-10-08T08:34:05  <gedare> technically, you need enforced time and space isolation
2013-10-08T08:34:30  <gedare> rtems can't enforce either from arbitrary task behavior
2013-10-08T08:35:24  <gedare> this is a combination of single address space and lack of privilege mode separation
2013-10-08T08:36:01  <gedare> you could have an rtos with multiple address spaces, but if it does not enforce supervisor/user mode separation, then the address spaces can be modified by the tasks also, so there would be no guarantees.
2013-10-08T08:36:05  <phipse> okay, so I had the right idea. I just want to make sure, I don't write a paper full of complete nonsense ;)
2013-10-08T08:36:18  <gedare> yeah.
2013-10-08T08:36:28  <gedare> i see it as a combination of both.
2013-10-08T08:36:56  <phipse> quote: RTEMS cannot support [ARINC653] directly due to its missing memory separation capabilities.
2013-10-08T08:37:13  <gedare> yeah that's fine to say.
2013-10-08T08:37:17  <phipse> :)
2013-10-08T08:37:20  <gedare> well
2013-10-08T08:37:35  <gedare> can't implement the partion OS part
2013-10-08T08:37:49  <gedare> otherwise you wouldn't have had a project :)
2013-10-08T08:38:06  <gedare> to be more precise about what can and cannot be supported within ARINC.
2013-10-08T08:38:19  <phipse> I don't go into details, I just state there is a problem, and that's why we had this project
2013-10-08T08:38:56  <gedare> ok good enough
2013-10-08T08:41:00  <phipse> I have to hand the paper in today and are currently fixing the last issues.
2013-10-08T08:41:21  <gedare> for what?
2013-10-08T08:41:36  <gedare> internship credits?
2013-10-08T08:43:43  <phipse> Real-time Linux Workshop
2013-10-08T08:45:21  <gedare> ah.
2013-10-08T08:46:11  <gedare> congrats: )
2013-10-08T08:46:28  <gedare> will you present it yourself? it will be a good experience
2013-10-08T08:49:11  <phipse> yes, the OS group of my university even pays for the trip. :)
2013-10-08T08:59:08  <phipse> What it better: Pok generates a custom/customized libpok library for each partition?
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2013-10-08T20:33:32  <gedare> hey kiwichris_
2013-10-08T20:33:44  <kiwichris_> hi
2013-10-08T20:33:55  <gedare> can you explain in 5 minutes or a link what Flattened Device Tree is?
2013-10-08T20:34:36  <gedare> or should i wait til you're ready for the big reveal? :P
2013-10-08T20:34:45  <kiwichris_> sure
2013-10-08T20:35:26  <kiwichris_> A link is here ? http://www.devicetree.org/Main_Page
2013-10-08T20:35:50  <kiwichris_> It is a way of describing a strcuture of devices as a text file.
2013-10-08T20:35:59  <gedare> reading.
2013-10-08T20:36:17  <gedare> oh ok
2013-10-08T20:36:25  <kiwichris_> Basically all the current BSP opts should be written as a device tree, ie clock speeds, irq values
2013-10-08T20:36:26  <gedare> i've seen the OFW version of this.
2013-10-08T20:36:35  <gedare> sure.
2013-10-08T20:36:57  <gedare> it's reminiscent of linux's sysfs also.
2013-10-08T20:37:02  <kiwichris_> You compile the DTS or source to a blob and a library of code lets you get values based on various paths and unit numbers
2013-10-08T20:37:14  <kiwichris_> Linux uses it on ARM and other platforms
2013-10-08T20:37:20  <kiwichris_> So does u-boot
2013-10-08T20:37:29  <kiwichris_> It is in wide spread use
2013-10-08T20:37:33  <gedare> ok
2013-10-08T20:37:41  <gedare> thanks
2013-10-08T20:38:01  <kiwichris_> The key for a device like the Zynq is the hardware tool controls everything and a new bitfile for the hardware may have changed something
2013-10-08T20:38:30  <gedare> sure, that makes sense
2013-10-08T20:38:41  <kiwichris_> It is not feasible to release new software everytime something in the bit file changes
2013-10-08T20:39:02  <kiwichris_> A bit file is loaded into the programmable logic or PL side of a device like a Zynq
2013-10-08T20:39:47  <kiwichris_> It is also not possible to have RTEMS have code for clock rates in the drivers. For example ...
2013-10-08T20:40:10  <gedare> right. i'm relatively familiar with how reconfigurable computing works.
2013-10-08T20:40:35  <kiwichris_> http://git.rtems.org/rtems/tree/c/src/lib/libbsp/arm/xilinx-zynq/console/zynq-uart.c#n39
2013-10-08T20:41:04  <kiwichris_> these values are for a specific configuration of the zynq and do not work on my hardware
2013-10-08T20:41:13  <gedare> gotcha
2013-10-08T20:41:25  <kiwichris_> I sure you are, it is more making the archive make sense :)
2013-10-08T20:41:31  <gedare> no that is good
2013-10-08T20:41:35  <gedare> i like the extra context
2013-10-08T20:42:00  <gedare> this could perhaps improve the portability of BSPs too by reducing the number of configuration points we have in code, like BSP opts?
2013-10-08T20:42:08  <kiwichris_> The issue for RTEMS is the inflexible place and point the drivers are initialised.
2013-10-08T20:42:19  <kiwichris_> My blob may still be sitting on the SD card
2013-10-08T20:42:34  <gedare> Do you know if the gaisler's driver manager does anything like this?
2013-10-08T20:42:36  <kiwichris_> Yes. An application can provide a DTB
2013-10-08T20:42:40  <kiwichris_> No idea
2013-10-08T20:42:43  <gedare> okay.
2013-10-08T20:43:12  <gedare> http://wiki.rtems.org/wiki/index.php/DriverManager
2013-10-08T20:43:16  <gedare> looks like we have  awriteup
2013-10-08T20:44:38  <kiwichris_> I am not sure if this is a framework for drivers rather than just a database of settings
2013-10-08T20:44:44  <gedare> yeah
2013-10-08T20:44:48  <kiwichris_> It looks like a framework
2013-10-08T20:44:58  <gedare> i agree it is different.
2013-10-08T20:45:17  <gedare> ok. thanks
2013-10-08T20:45:22  <kiwichris_> no problem
2013-10-08T20:45:25  <gedare> one other quick question for you, i think i asked you before...
2013-10-08T20:45:33  <kiwichris_> sure
2013-10-08T20:45:34  <gedare> the status of the iso9660 fs project
2013-10-08T20:45:42  <kiwichris_> No idea
2013-10-08T20:45:43  <gedare> is that complete pending other code?
2013-10-08T20:45:45  <gedare> ah, ko
2013-10-08T20:45:57  <kiwichris_> Was this a GSoC project ?
2013-10-08T20:46:00  <gedare> i feel like it got stalled by something else like the ata driver or something
2013-10-08T20:46:01  <gedare> yeah
2013-10-08T20:46:13  <gedare> the page says 2011, mentored by you ;)
2013-10-08T20:46:27  <gedare> http://wiki.rtems.org/wiki/index.php/ISO9660_Filesystem
2013-10-08T20:46:40  <kiwichris_> Hmm I wonder if the API to libblock has changed
2013-10-08T20:47:54  <gedare> ok. i'll leave it as an open project. i was just doing a cursory clean-up of the projects page list.
2013-10-08T20:47:59  <kiwichris_> Ah yes. I think the issue is not format it is the driver specifics to manage the ATAPI command set.
2013-10-08T20:48:05  <kiwichris_> Sure
2013-10-08T20:49:27  <gedare> okay. have a nice day
2013-10-08T20:49:34  <kiwichris_> cya
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2013-10-09T01:49:35  <sebhub> good morning
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2013-10-09T20:32:48  <nickwithers> Anyone have any experience with PowerPC e500 external debuggingwith RTEMS? ...I'm being an optimist here :-P
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2013-10-10T01:47:14  <sebhub> good morning
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