2013-06-03T00:11:35 *** antgreen_ has joined #rtems 2013-06-03T00:14:36 *** monstr_ has joined #rtems 2013-06-03T00:21:42 *** antgreen_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2013-06-03T00:38:08 *** antgreen_ has joined #rtems 2013-06-03T00:43:52 *** antgreen_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2013-06-03T01:43:00 *** sebhub has joined #rtems 2013-06-03T01:43:08 good morning 2013-06-03T02:21:18 Hi all 2013-06-03T02:24:41 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2013-06-03T02:29:01 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2013-06-03T02:31:12 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC (Max SendQ exceeded) 2013-06-03T02:31:50 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2013-06-03T02:32:52 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC (Max SendQ exceeded) 2013-06-03T02:33:50 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2013-06-03T02:35:30 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2013-06-03T02:36:58 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC (Max SendQ exceeded) 2013-06-03T02:38:48 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 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(Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2013-06-03T06:32:53 *** MegaAlex|away has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2013-06-03T06:35:53 *** MegaAlex|away has joined #rtems 2013-06-03T06:37:06 *** antgreen has joined #rtems 2013-06-03T06:45:55 *** antgreen has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2013-06-03T07:05:57 *** MegaAlex|away has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2013-06-03T07:07:53 *** MegaAlex|away has joined #rtems 2013-06-03T08:55:06 *** antgreen has joined #rtems 2013-06-03T09:03:02 *** antgreen has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2013-06-03T09:06:28 *** antgreen has joined #rtems 2013-06-03T09:09:21 *** antgreen has joined #rtems 2013-06-03T09:10:39 *** gedare has joined #rtems 2013-06-03T09:15:17 howdy 2013-06-03T09:20:42 hi 2013-06-03T09:36:25 nice comment about notepad.exe---summed up my thoughts exactly. 2013-06-03T09:37:17 *** freenix has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2013-06-03T09:44:40 i have some other comments about notepad.exe, but i keep them private ;-) 2013-06-03T09:45:14 *** weiY has joined #rtems 2013-06-03T09:45:25 haha 2013-06-03T09:45:56 hi weiY how are you 2013-06-03T10:07:04 gedare, haha. glad to see you 2013-06-03T10:07:31 now i am reply the mail of sebhub about the atomic ops switching to C11 2013-06-03T10:09:46 *** monstr_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2013-06-03T10:12:34 ok. i think it is good if the support is mostly there for our primary targets 2013-06-03T10:12:48 or if it is not so hard to add the support directly in gcc 2013-06-03T10:12:49 ok, its just a thought, i read some papers about c11 recently 2013-06-03T10:13:15 it think this is the way to got for future projects using C and multi core 2013-06-03T10:13:29 yeah, i also agree to switch to C11, but i donot know whether it is mature enough 2013-06-03T10:13:32 sure, but how about "current" projects 2013-06-03T10:13:55 probably for a little while we will need to have both in RTEMS 2013-06-03T10:13:57 since we are so slow we have an advantage here 2013-06-03T10:13:58 and should we also consider the other architectures support ,like UP architectures 2013-06-03T10:14:01 that's true 2013-06-03T10:14:12 i'm not really that worried over it. 2013-06-03T10:14:20 we started with the atomic ops more than one year ago 2013-06-03T10:14:28 now we have GCC 4.8 2013-06-03T10:14:40 but, if we let c11 features creep out of the SMP area, then we need to be sure those features are avialable and working on all targets 2013-06-03T10:14:45 we still don't use atomic ops in the score, but this will change soon 2013-06-03T10:14:51 agreed 2013-06-03T10:15:00 and in the first time of the atomic project, we have consider the switching to C11 2013-06-03T10:15:12 for example i need a simple barrier in smptests/smplock01 2013-06-03T10:15:17 so its API is easy to switch to C11 2013-06-03T10:15:31 ok, this is a good point 2013-06-03T10:15:32 my thought was to have the parallel API for c11 2013-06-03T10:15:39 for atomics 2013-06-03T10:15:56 unless someone can guarantee for example the leon3 atomic support in gcc is there for c11 2013-06-03T10:16:08 in pre c11 it was compiler dependent if multi-core works or not 2013-06-03T10:16:24 in c11 you can say, the compiler must to this or it is not conforming 2013-06-03T10:16:41 true. on the other hand, switching to c11 means the compiler needs to be available 2013-06-03T10:16:51 but, this should not be a problem soon. 2013-06-03T10:17:11 yes, but gcc 4.8 is ready in this case 2013-06-03T10:17:26 So i think if we use C11 atomic we should also guarantee the API unify for all architecutures 2013-06-03T10:17:26 there might be more pushback from other developers who are not as progressive thinking... 2013-06-03T10:17:44 but i think the position of using c11 atomic is defensible. 2013-06-03T10:18:24 weiY: yes, whether the implementation underneath is c11 or customized. but, c11 api can be used externally too by applications 2013-06-03T10:18:33 since c11 api is defined by the language standard. 2013-06-03T10:18:49 its not only atomics, its also the memory model 2013-06-03T10:18:51 but inside RTEMS there will probably need to be some wrappers for a little while at least, is my guess 2013-06-03T10:18:59 ok. i need to read more... it is a lot to learn 2013-06-03T10:19:00 it was unspecified in previous c standard releases 2013-06-03T10:19:33 yeah, it can be used in applications. but if it is used in the score, i think we should also wrap a layer for C11 atomic 2013-06-03T10:19:46 C11 is the first revision that deals with this, it was under review for several years by all major software vendors including Intel, IBM and ARM 2013-06-03T10:20:12 if you write this atomic stuff on your own, then you are highly compiler dependent 2013-06-03T10:20:39 and a pre C11 compiler is allowed to do optimizations that are now forbidden 2013-06-03T10:21:13 http://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/Going+Deep/Cpp-and-Beyond-2012-Herb-Sutter-atomic-Weapons-1-of-2 2013-06-03T10:21:22 yeah, i have also studying the C11 and its API is good enough, but my only concern is if it is not supported by some UP architecutre, how we guarantee its unify 2013-06-03T10:21:31 thanks i saw this just last week. no time to watch it yet 2013-06-03T10:21:40 but i'll make a note to set aside some time 2013-06-03T10:21:41 its a good introduction 2013-06-03T10:22:11 i've been reading a lot about c++ lately so it is good for me. 2013-06-03T10:22:32 if you need thread/interrupt aware lock free implementations, then you have to use disable/enable interrupts anyway 2013-06-03T10:22:34 does c11 atomics unify the C and C++approach? 2013-06-03T10:22:41 yes 2013-06-03T10:22:43 ok 2013-06-03T10:23:00 i know i read about this before. in one ear, out the other, i guess. 2013-06-03T10:23:30 good link, i will study too. 2013-06-03T10:26:50 see you tomorrow. it is later i must go to bed 2013-06-03T10:27:06 cu 2013-06-03T10:27:40 *** weiY has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving...) 2013-06-03T10:35:20 *** sebhub has quit IRC (Remote host 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timeout: 250 seconds) 2013-06-03T19:37:43 *** freenix has joined #rtems 2013-06-03T19:46:23 hi,kiwichris. 2013-06-03T19:48:52 Is it possible to build RTEMS 4.8 under windows? I realize it's out of support, but still 2013-06-03T20:13:41 *** freenix has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2013-06-03T20:19:54 *** the9a3eedi-2 has joined #rtems 2013-06-03T20:20:58 *** the9a3eedi-2 has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2013-06-03T20:22:05 *** the9a3eedi-2 has joined #rtems 2013-06-03T20:27:51 *** freenix has joined #rtems 2013-06-03T21:33:15 *** the9a3eedi-2 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2013-06-03T23:05:36 freenix, hi 2013-06-03T23:05:53 the9a3eedi, in theory yes 2013-06-03T23:31:54 hi,kiwichirs. I just want to tell you I submit code to my github project. 2013-06-03T23:33:02 freenix, hmm I wonder how I can watch your project and get notified 2013-06-03T23:33:34 It seems github provides a 'watch' function. 2013-06-03T23:35:32 can you add me to your repo ? 2013-06-03T23:35:44 sure. 2013-06-03T23:35:47 thanks 2013-06-03T23:40:43 hi, kiwichris. I have added you to the collaborators. is this ok? 2013-06-03T23:40:49 thanks 2013-06-03T23:40:56 Yeah this is great 2013-06-03T23:41:34 I submit the ppc support to loader and a small patch to the host linker.Thanks for your reviewing. 2013-06-03T23:41:39 Did you pull the change I pushed to the git.rtems.org repo ? 2013-06-03T23:41:59 sorry. I have not. 2013-06-03T23:43:17 Sure, just wondering how it will work 2013-06-03T23:46:33 If i pull the change from your upstream, should I use this command "git push -f githuborigin myproject" to submit the code? 2013-06-03T23:46:40 sorry for this stupid question. 2013-06-03T23:48:56 No idea 2013-06-03T23:49:38 If I use "push -f", all the comments will be removed. I may find another way to fix this. 2013-06-04T00:25:20 *** monstr_ has joined #rtems 2013-06-04T00:29:51 *** S_Somani has joined #rtems 2013-06-04T00:52:21 *** S_Somani has left #rtems 2013-06-04T00:59:59 *** the9a3eedi-2 has joined #rtems 2013-06-04T01:20:00 *** the9a3eedi-2 has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2013-06-04T01:23:28 *** freenix has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2013-06-04T01:41:26 *** freenix has joined #rtems 2013-06-04T01:53:27 kiwichris, I tried but eventually gave up because it also involves compiling the tools on windows, which I expected would be a real pain. I now resorted to using a linux virtual machine and it seems to work 2013-06-04T01:53:53 I only need 4.8 to try out a certain tool edisoft made 2013-06-04T01:53:59 sure 2013-06-04T03:38:39 *** the9a3eedi has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2013-06-04T04:01:25 *** the9a3eedi has joined #rtems 2013-06-04T04:06:44 *** the9a3eedi has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2013-06-04T04:13:43 *** the9a3eedi has joined #rtems 2013-06-04T04:20:58 *** the9a3eedi has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2013-06-04T04:27:23 *** sebhub has joined #rtems 2013-06-04T04:27:29 good morning 2013-06-04T06:20:28 *** antgreen has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2013-06-04T06:34:04 *** antgreen has joined #rtems 2013-06-04T06:47:55 *** antgreen has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) 2013-06-04T06:50:59 *** antgreen has joined #rtems 2013-06-04T07:20:30 *** MegaAlex|away has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2013-06-04T07:22:07 *** MegaAlex|away has joined #rtems 2013-06-04T07:44:49 *** antgreen has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2013-06-04T07:57:58 *** antgreen has joined #rtems 2013-06-04T08:03:53 *** MegaAlex|away has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2013-06-04T08:04:52 *** gedare has joined #rtems 2013-06-04T08:21:05 morning. 2013-06-04T08:28:15 *** phipse has joined #rtems 2013-06-04T08:28:25 hi 2013-06-04T08:28:37 *** MegaAlex|away has joined #rtems 2013-06-04T08:29:06 phipse do you feel pretty good about your project? 2013-06-04T08:29:14 it's ambitious and a lot of work :) 2013-06-04T08:29:15 gedare: concerning your mail: By documentation you ment the ToDo list in melange? 2013-06-04T08:29:24 oh it just got a little bit more :D 2013-06-04T08:29:29 google needs certain legal documents from the students 2013-06-04T08:29:43 there should be some email on the gsoc-students google group 2013-06-04T08:29:50 yeah I submitted them a week ago 2013-06-04T08:30:00 ok good. i just wanted to send a reminder 2013-06-04T08:30:53 maybe I have to implement a scheduler in POK partition do get a clock task working in the same partition ;) 2013-06-04T08:31:30 hmmm 2013-06-04T08:31:39 i'm not on pok ml so i don't know the background 2013-06-04T08:31:48 but it took me only 2hours and a philosophy seminar on Martin Heidegger to figure that out :P 2013-06-04T08:32:06 it was offlist, just with the mentors 2013-06-04T08:32:14 the discussion I mean 2013-06-04T08:32:50 ah, ok 2013-06-04T08:33:21 keep notes :) 2013-06-04T08:33:36 but the more concerning problem is the Elbe(river) rising up to my front door, we have a flood catastrophe here in Germany 2013-06-04T08:34:56 so I might be unavailable the next days 2013-06-04T08:42:24 oh! ok be careful. 2013-06-04T08:46:22 *** S_Somani has joined #rtems 2013-06-04T08:57:52 I will be :) cya 2013-06-04T08:57:59 *** phipse has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2013-06-04T09:02:18 *** vipulnayyar has joined #rtems 2013-06-04T09:18:29 *** weiY has joined #rtems 2013-06-04T09:35:44 *** vipulnayyar has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2013-06-04T09:46:53 *** SYCrane has quit IRC (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]) 2013-06-04T10:01:38 *** weiY has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2013-06-04T10:01:46 *** weiY has joined #rtems 2013-06-04T10:05:46 *** freenix has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2013-06-04T10:06:50 *** zhangwenjie has joined #rtems 2013-06-04T10:07:50 *** zhangwenjie has joined #rtems 2013-06-04T10:11:01 *** weiY has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2013-06-04T10:16:39 *** weiY has joined #rtems 2013-06-04T10:17:05 Hi, sebhub 2013-06-04T10:17:13 hi 2013-06-04T10:18:22 about the atomic, i think whether we should continue using the exsit API and if the c11 atomic support some architecture we can just wrap its implementation 2013-06-04T10:18:34 and then we can switch to C11 atomic step by step 2013-06-04T10:18:56 because old compiler also should be maintained 2013-06-04T10:19:29 yes, such an wrapper api soulds good, but i don't think older compilers are of interest 2013-06-04T10:19:32 and the exsit atomic API is very similiar with C11 stardard atomic API 2013-06-04T10:19:43 yes, this is good 2013-06-04T10:19:43 *** S_Somani has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2013-06-04T10:20:00 http://sourceware.org/ml/libc-alpha/2009-08/msg00025.html 2013-06-04T10:20:07 and my next step is to implement the arm atomic support 2013-06-04T10:20:09 older compilers may do stupid optimizations 2013-06-04T10:20:50 haha, but there are still some users using the old compiler 2013-06-04T10:21:08 this is stupid from my point of view 2013-06-04T10:21:52 *** S_Somani has joined #rtems 2013-06-04T10:22:32 its ok, to provide an own api that gives you the ability to do stupid things 2013-06-04T10:22:41 and in the arm atomic support i can consider using the C11 atomic implementation 2013-06-04T10:22:55 but first i should setup a new compiler environment 2013-06-04T10:22:59 i would use c11 to implement this api and let other people do the stupid things 2013-06-04T10:23:26 haha, agree. step by step 2013-06-04T10:23:45 i will propose a newlib patch tomorrow which adds from freebsd to newlib 2013-06-04T10:23:57 ok, good job 2013-06-04T10:24:19 i think its important to at least evaluate this stuff, then we can see what to do best 2013-06-04T10:24:24 i am consider whether i should work for port the stdatomic.h from freebsd to newlib. you have done. 2013-06-04T10:25:07 we may save a lot of time if we use C11 and can do more useful things 2013-06-04T10:25:31 yeah, using the C11 stardard is good choice 2013-06-04T10:26:09 if we implement our own atomic ops the maintain is also a hard work 2013-06-04T10:26:15 this lock trace is quite a big project on its own 2013-06-04T10:26:24 of your gsoc project 2013-06-04T10:27:58 lock trace is ported from freebsd , and i have look into the code its dependence is somewhat little 2013-06-04T10:28:50 so a simpler trace implementation is possble as a gsoc project. and i will try my best. 2013-06-04T10:29:32 but atomic project is first work should be done in this summer 2013-06-04T10:30:21 yes, this is the first part 2013-06-04T10:30:41 i have to leave in 5 minutes 2013-06-04T10:31:44 ok, i will go to bed later. if you have send the stdatomic.h patch i will setup environemnt ASAP 2013-06-04T10:31:44 cu 2013-06-04T10:31:56 cu 2013-06-04T10:33:44 *** sebhub has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2013-06-04T10:51:18 *** S_Somani has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2013-06-04T10:58:18 *** antgreen has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2013-06-04T10:58:33 *** weiY has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving...) 2013-06-04T11:14:15 *** antgreen has joined #rtems 2013-06-04T12:16:49 *** S_Somani has joined #rtems 2013-06-04T13:04:57 *** peerst_ has joined #rtems 2013-06-04T13:08:02 *** antgreen has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2013-06-04T13:08:03 *** peerst has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2013-06-04T13:08:40 *** antgreen has joined #rtems 2013-06-04T13:09:35 *** rokka has joined #rtems 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2013-06-04T15:32:57 cool thanks 2013-06-04T15:33:11 sure 2013-06-04T15:33:22 i'm a bit distracted today so can't chat.. took a friend to ER, he's fine though 2013-06-04T15:33:43 good to hear he's OK 2013-06-04T15:40:12 *** peerst has joined #rtems 2013-06-04T15:59:45 *** gedare has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2013-06-04T16:27:32 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2013-06-04T16:36:31 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2013-06-04T16:41:59 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2013-06-04T16:49:24 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2013-06-04T16:51:19 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC (Max SendQ exceeded) 2013-06-04T16:54:21 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2013-06-04T18:06:31 *** MegaAlex is now known as MegaAlex|away 2013-06-04T18:41:49 *** antgreen has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) 2013-06-04T18:50:55 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2013-06-04T18:58:30 *** antgreen has joined #rtems 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joined #rtems 2013-06-05T02:03:19 *** monstr_ has joined #rtems 2013-06-05T02:04:06 *** sebhub has joined #rtems 2013-06-05T02:05:45 good morning 2013-06-05T02:31:49 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2013-06-05T02:38:19 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2013-06-05T02:45:39 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2013-06-05T02:48:58 *** freenix has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2013-06-05T02:51:00 *** freenix has joined #rtems 2013-06-05T04:12:16 *** MegaAlex|away is now known as MegaAlex 2013-06-05T04:22:54 *** kiwichris_ has joined #rtems 2013-06-05T04:30:09 *** kiwichris has quit IRC (*.net *.split) 2013-06-05T04:30:09 *** verm__ has quit IRC (*.net *.split) 2013-06-05T04:30:49 *** verm__ has joined #rtems 2013-06-05T05:35:48 *** MegaAlex is now known as MegaAlex|away 2013-06-05T05:40:10 *** verm__ has quit IRC (*.net *.split) 2013-06-05T05:45:07 *** verm__ has joined #rtems 2013-06-05T07:27:40 *** gedare has joined #rtems 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