2013-01-28T00:29:08  <the9a3eedi> nevermind, I gave up and decided to convert RPMs to DEBs .. seems to work so far
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2013-01-28T01:49:19  <sebhub> good morning
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2013-01-29T01:28:59  <sebhub> good morning
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2013-01-29T18:28:10  <the9a3eedi> Good morning.. from south korea! New RTEMS user here. I hope to join the community eventually :)
2013-01-29T18:29:23  <kiwichris> the9a3eedi, welcome
2013-01-29T19:40:49  <the9a3eedi> So I've been trying for the past hour (and a couple of hours yesterday too) to modify the hello world example so that the task starts a shell. I've been reading the shell manual and it says that you need to include rtems/shellconfig.h along with 2 defines, so I did that. But then I got lots of compile errors, multiple declaratoins etc.
2013-01-29T19:42:30  <the9a3eedi> so I removed the rtems/shellconfig.h include and the errors are gone. Is this because confdefs.h acts like an automated "include manager"?
2013-01-29T19:43:02  <kiwichris> Have a look at this code ?. http://git.rtems.org/chrisj/rtl.git/tree/main.c#n446
2013-01-29T19:44:41  <the9a3eedi> well I'm just trying to understand how the whole configuration system works
2013-01-29T19:45:11  <the9a3eedi> yeah, I got the shell code from the fileio sample in the source
2013-01-29T19:47:29  <kiwichris> Does this help ? http://rtems.org/onlinedocs/doc-current/share/rtems/html/c_user/c_user_423.html#Configuring-a-System
2013-01-29T19:47:43  <the9a3eedi> I already read that
2013-01-29T19:48:10  <the9a3eedi> it somewhat makes sense,but I noticed that some samples don't use confdefs, which is what confuses me
2013-01-29T19:48:38  <kiwichris> Are you sure ? It might be used in a different .c file.
2013-01-29T19:51:17  <the9a3eedi> hmm.. you're right, it's in system.h that fileio includes. didn't notice that there
2013-01-29T19:55:24  <the9a3eedi> nevermind, I'm back to the same issue I was having. though I now understand what confdefs.h actually does
2013-01-29T19:55:31  <the9a3eedi> thanks
2013-01-29T20:17:10  <the9a3eedi> I hate to ask this, but I'm still getting linker errors while compiling my modified hello world code. May someone please take a quick look at the code and tell me what's going wrong? http://pastebin.com/KTA2Btdb
2013-01-29T20:36:20  <kiwichris> What host and tools ?
2013-01-29T20:40:45  <the9a3eedi> I'm on Linux Mint x86_64, standard gnu tools (using the tools from the prebuilt rpms)
2013-01-29T20:52:11  <kiwichris> Sorry I do not use the prebuilt tools. Are they the latest tools ?
2013-01-29T20:57:07  <the9a3eedi> well, I downloaded them pretty recently. gcc is 4.7.2 .. according to wikipedia that's the latest stable release
2013-01-29T20:57:21  <kiwichris> via yum ?
2013-01-29T20:58:30  <the9a3eedi> no, I'm on Linux mint (ubuntu based). I downloaded the RPMs via http://www.rtems.org/ftp/pub/rtems/linux/ and then converted them to .deb using alien, then installed them (didn't have any issues)
2013-01-29T20:58:59  <the9a3eedi> I am able to build the git source tree using the tools, so I'm pretty sure the tools are fine
2013-01-29T20:59:08  <kiwichris> that is good
2013-01-29T20:59:45  <the9a3eedi> it's something to do with how I modified the hello world code from what I know
2013-01-29T21:00:07  <the9a3eedi> perhaps I should post to the mailing list?
2013-01-29T21:00:18  <kiwichris> brb
2013-01-29T21:00:24  <the9a3eedi> tyt
2013-01-29T21:01:15  <the9a3eedi> or maybe I should just drop this altogether and "move on" ... I've been spending way too much time on this lol
2013-01-29T21:02:01  <kiwichris> If you want an app, maybe try the waf build system and the files in the app I referenced.
2013-01-29T21:02:23  <kiwichris> clone this http://git.rtems.org/chrisj/rtl.git/tree/
2013-01-29T21:03:09  <kiwichris> then I take some of these and create a new app
2013-01-29T21:04:05  <the9a3eedi> I'll check it out, thanks... though I'd rather just stick to the automake system
2013-01-29T21:06:24  <kiwichris> I will make for you
2013-01-29T21:06:44  <kiwichris> Best of luck with automake
2013-01-29T21:13:32  <kiwichris> Here is the waf example ? http://www.rtems.org/ftp/pub/rtems/people/chrisj/rtems-waf-hello.tar.gz
2013-01-29T21:14:02  <kiwichris> waf configure --rtems=/Users/chris/Development/rtems/build/4.11 --rtems-tools=/Users/chris/Development/rtems/4.11 --rtems-archs=sparc
2013-01-29T21:14:16  <kiwichris> where --rtems is the path to the installed RTEMS
2013-01-29T21:14:32  <kiwichris> --rtems-tools= is the path to the tools
2013-01-29T21:16:22  <kiwichris> You will find the link order of libs etc might be important.
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2013-01-30T00:37:01  <the9a3eedi> thanks for the help kiwichris, much appreciated
2013-01-30T00:37:37  <the9a3eedi> I'm going to take a look at waf now
2013-01-30T00:37:52  <the9a3eedi> sounds like a real timesaver
2013-01-30T00:38:27  <kiwichris> Just uploaded a new version a moment ago with doco in the wscript file.
2013-01-30T00:38:53  <kiwichris> I have been using for a while now and it is fast, stable and powerful.
2013-01-30T00:39:17  <kiwichris> If you look at the RTL project's wscript file it shows the complexity that can be achieved.
2013-01-30T00:40:12  <kiwichris> That project links RTEMS to create a base kernel, extracts the symbols, build an object file with the symbol table then relinks the kernel to make the final image with a symbol table.
2013-01-30T00:40:20  <kiwichris> need to run, cya
2013-01-30T00:40:34  <the9a3eedi> thanks again!
2013-01-30T00:40:43  <the9a3eedi> will do
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2013-01-30T02:18:04  <sebhub> good morning
2013-01-30T02:28:52  <the9a3eedi> good evening... from south korea :)
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2013-01-31T03:18:29  <sebhub> good morning
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2013-02-01T00:21:46  <the9a3eedi> Is there a good reason to NOT use prebuilt tools? It seems that a lot of users I see online prefer to compile the tools themselves for some reason despite it being more work
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2013-02-01T00:36:37  <kiwichris_> the9a3eedi, one MacOS there are no pre-built tools
2013-02-01T00:37:02  <kiwichris_> http://www.rtems.org/ftp/pub/rtems/people/chrisj/source-builder/source-builder.html
2013-02-01T00:37:18  <kiwichris_> is a link to a list of reasons why I feel building from source is important.
2013-02-01T01:05:29  <the9a3eedi> thanks, good read
2013-02-01T01:06:16  <the9a3eedi> makes sense now on why people compile from source.. but for now I dont think these reasons apply to me currently as I'm mostly learning and experimenting
2013-02-01T01:07:00  <the9a3eedi> I was thinking that maybe people preferred compiling from source because the prebuilt tools have some compatibility issues sometimes or do not install properly
2013-02-01T01:08:48  <kiwichris_> They have no issues I am aware of.
2013-02-01T01:21:28  <the9a3eedi> I see.. just struggling with makefiles here so I thought maybe my prebuilt tools werent installed correctly
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2013-02-01T14:16:09  <max___> hi!! evrybody
2013-02-01T14:16:18  <max___> watzzz up wid d google code in
2013-02-01T14:16:19  <max___> ??
2013-02-01T14:20:26  <MegaAlex> max___: hey ayush, results will be announced on February 4th, 17:00 UTC on the open-source blog
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2013-02-02T07:08:37  <peerst> kiwichris_: do I need to use tools of certain versions with RTEMS Linker or is this no sensitive?
2013-02-02T07:09:38  <peerst> I'm using gcc 4.6.2, binutils 2.21.1
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2013-02-02T16:57:34  <kiwichris> peerst, yes it should work with those tools. If not please let me know.
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2013-02-03T04:20:07  <peerst> kiwichris: ok I'll give it a try
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2013-02-03T11:19:11  <ayush10297> hi!! everybody
2013-02-03T11:19:38  <ayush10297> wat time GCI results coming up??
2013-02-03T11:19:44  <ayush10297> anybody knws
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2013-02-03T20:24:48  <the9a3eedi> Something has been bothering me for a while now, but I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong..
2013-02-03T20:25:18  <the9a3eedi> basically, directory.cfg seems to be missing from my /opt/rtems4.11 folder, but every other included makefile is there.
2013-02-03T20:25:47  <the9a3eedi> /opt/rtems4.11/make I mean
2013-02-03T20:26:35  <kiwichris> Is this referenced by the example make stuff ?
2013-02-03T20:26:44  <the9a3eedi> yes
2013-02-03T20:27:13  <the9a3eedi> the Makefile.dir template has a "include $(RTEMS_ROOT)/make/directory.cfg" line
2013-02-03T20:27:26  <kiwichris> The 'makefile' fragment approach is flawed for this reason. I personally never us it and I know other maintainers (Ralf) do not as well.
2013-02-03T20:27:30  <the9a3eedi> where RTEMS_ROOT I assume is /opt/rtems-4.11
2013-02-03T20:27:51  <the9a3eedi> I see...
2013-02-03T20:28:04  <the9a3eedi> just seems like a bug to me though
2013-02-03T20:28:15  <kiwichris> The external dependence on the internal implementation details of the RTEMS build system is always going to have these problems. For example how far back to maintain combatiliby.
2013-02-03T20:28:49  <kiwichris> The dependence on the this file by the examples or it not being present ? Both are valid.
2013-02-03T20:29:37  <the9a3eedi> I would say it not be present is the bug, not the actual dependence
2013-02-03T20:29:49  <the9a3eedi> the file is there somewhere, but placed in the wrong location
2013-02-03T20:30:00  <kiwichris> So RTEMS has to keep this file maintained for ever ?
2013-02-03T20:30:06  <the9a3eedi> at least from what I can tell
2013-02-03T20:30:48  <the9a3eedi> well, if they're going to stick to the current build system, then yes. However, this build system is only intended for users to use with their application.. as a simple system
2013-02-03T20:30:57  <kiwichris> Maybe it is the examples that needs to be updated ? I do not know.
2013-02-03T20:31:00  <the9a3eedi> but I'm still a newbie so I might be wrong here
2013-02-03T20:31:46  <kiwichris> I also do not know as I do not use this way of building apps
2013-02-03T20:32:27  <the9a3eedi> I see.. waf is that much better huh :P
2013-02-03T20:33:11  <kiwichris> It is not a question of make vs waf vs scons vs cmake. It is the dependence of an external package on something that was considered internal.
2013-02-03T20:33:25  <kiwichris> I also only assume this because it seems to have gone away.
2013-02-03T20:33:44  <kiwichris> Joel looks after all this so I suggest you ask him. He will know.
2013-02-03T20:34:08  <the9a3eedi> can I just contact him directly? what's his email?
2013-02-03T20:34:25  <kiwichris> yeah. it is no the rtems.ort somewhere :)
2013-02-03T20:34:29  <kiwichris> no -> on
2013-02-03T20:34:41  <kiwichris> ort -> org
2013-02-03T20:34:48  <the9a3eedi> ok, will contact him then.. thanks
2013-02-03T20:35:18  <the9a3eedi> though isn't it better if I just send to the mailing list? I feel like it's wrong sending directly to the guy lol
2013-02-03T20:35:50  <kiwichris> I suggest you ping him directly for this one, the external make stuff can get heated :)
2013-02-03T20:36:15  <the9a3eedi> I see, good call lol.. thanks again
2013-02-03T20:52:41  <the9a3eedi> https://www.rtems.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1758 found this bug. I can see how much drama this topic can get lol
2013-02-03T20:52:55  <kiwichris> :)
2013-02-03T20:56:45  <the9a3eedi> though the last comment is from 2011.. I wonder what happened since then.. but maybe I shouldn't get involved in this lol
2013-02-03T22:20:22  <kiwichris> The topic died and so with it any push to change the examples.
2013-02-03T22:21:39  <kiwichris> The PR details the broken .exe in the RTEMS build with breaks the autotools. Not long after I started using waf and have not looked at autotools since and will not again.
2013-02-03T22:23:01  <the9a3eedi> I see.. I'd rather not use autotools if I don't have too. It just seems like a tedious waste of time
2013-02-03T22:23:32  <the9a3eedi> the makefile system is nice because it's simple and does the job without having to configure things too much, at least that's my impression
2013-02-03T23:00:08  <the9a3eedi> well, I finally just built my first project that I made myself (not from the examples). Thanks kiwichris, you helped a lot! :D
2013-02-03T23:00:25  <kiwichris> Nice. What build system ?
2013-02-03T23:00:46  <the9a3eedi> the makefile template.. I realize it's not much yet lol
2013-02-03T23:01:10  <kiwichris> It is a big step. Well done.
2013-02-03T23:01:38  <the9a3eedi> thanks
2013-02-03T23:02:17  <the9a3eedi> I think I'm going to read up some more about RTEMS, all those managers