2012-03-19T00:00:37 *** A2Sheds has joined #rtems 2012-03-19T00:01:32 *** A2Sheds has joined #rtems 2012-03-19T01:35:37 *** arvind_k has joined #rtems 2012-03-19T01:39:00 *** arvind_k is now known as arvind_khadri 2012-03-19T01:39:30 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2012-03-19T01:58:59 *** cancelme2 has joined #rtems 2012-03-19T02:14:17 *** stefane has joined #rtems 2012-03-19T02:14:56 *** cancelme2 has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2012-03-19T02:32:14 *** xiangfu has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2012-03-19T02:32:27 *** xiangfu has joined #rtems 2012-03-19T02:37:44 *** A2Sheds has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2012-03-19T02:49:44 *** A2Sheds has joined #rtems 2012-03-19T02:51:19 *** zw_yao has joined #rtems 2012-03-19T03:08:50 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2012-03-19T03:11:01 *** panzon_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2012-03-19T03:48:30 *** kiwichris has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2012-03-19T03:56:53 *** A2Sheds has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2012-03-19T04:02:10 *** kiwichris has joined #rtems 2012-03-19T04:08:09 *** kiwichris has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2012-03-19T04:12:50 *** kiwichris has joined #rtems 2012-03-19T04:14:41 *** A2Sheds has joined #rtems 2012-03-19T04:23:35 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2012-03-19T04:57:08 *** zw_yao has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2012-03-19T06:25:19 *** xiangfu has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2012-03-19T06:27:48 *** xiangfu has joined #rtems 2012-03-19T06:38:04 *** kiwichris has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2012-03-19T06:42:53 *** kiwichris has joined #rtems 2012-03-19T09:13:03 *** weiY has joined #rtems 2012-03-19T10:03:32 *** gedare has joined #rtems 2012-03-19T10:10:52 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2012-03-19T10:21:13 *** xiangfu has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2012-03-19T10:36:06 good morning 2012-03-19T10:51:34 hi gedare 2012-03-19T10:51:37 good night 2012-03-19T10:51:56 in my zone area now it is middle night 2012-03-19T11:12:14 :) 2012-03-19T11:12:27 weiY which projects interest you? 2012-03-19T11:12:57 Hi gedare . i am interested in the project atomic operations 2012-03-19T11:13:06 ok great. that is a good project 2012-03-19T11:13:33 now i have write a draft for this project which is not completely. could you help review it? 2012-03-19T11:14:24 hi gedare, are you protenial mentor for this project? 2012-03-19T11:14:30 add it to the table at http://www.rtems.com/wiki/index.php/RTEMSSummerOfCode#Student_Information 2012-03-19T11:15:13 yes. but others are as well 2012-03-19T11:15:34 ok, i will add it asap. it is link is https://docs.google.com/document/d/11O3i5dWlH4BmwY9SAycvARf40omeLJ-aD0Eg6E4fuh0/edit# 2012-03-19T11:34:49 Hi gedare. i have add it into the link. If you have free time please give me some comment. thank you. i will have to go to bed 2012-03-19T11:34:58 ok take care 2012-03-19T11:35:23 i requested access 2012-03-19T11:35:36 weiY ^ 2012-03-19T11:36:22 i have add your mail to access root 2012-03-19T11:47:00 thanks weiy, I have got it. 2012-03-19T11:48:07 *** weiY has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2012-03-19T11:48:20 *** gedare has quit IRC (Quit: Ex-Chat) 2012-03-19T12:15:10 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2012-03-19T12:15:10 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2012-03-19T12:50:51 *** Sebastian_Poland has joined #rtems 2012-03-19T13:13:18 *** sevikkk has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2012-03-19T13:28:04 *** sevikkk has joined #rtems 2012-03-19T13:33:15 *** gedare has joined #rtems 2012-03-19T13:42:58 *** Sebastian_Poland has left #rtems ("Wychodzi") 2012-03-19T14:18:43 *** gedare has quit IRC (Quit: Ex-Chat) 2012-03-19T15:28:39 *** A2Sheds has quit IRC (Quit: puff of smoke) 2012-03-19T16:31:23 *** A2Sheds has 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morning 2012-03-20T11:04:27 Hello 2012-03-20T11:39:46 *** weiY has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2012-03-20T11:43:19 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2012-03-20T13:36:35 *** dr__house has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2012-03-20T13:36:43 *** dr__house has joined #rtems 2012-03-20T13:36:43 *** dr__house has quit IRC (Changing host) 2012-03-20T13:36:43 *** dr__house has joined #rtems 2012-03-20T13:42:16 *** gedare has quit IRC (Quit: Ex-Chat) 2012-03-20T13:51:34 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2012-03-20T14:28:36 *** cdcs has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2012-03-20T15:28:27 *** gedare has joined #rtems 2012-03-20T15:55:28 *** panzon has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2012-03-20T15:56:59 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) 2012-03-20T15:57:03 *** panzon has joined #rtems 2012-03-20T16:32:13 *** soh_cah_toa has joined #rtems 2012-03-20T16:35:45 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2012-03-20T16:41:00 good evening 2012-03-20T19:11:03 *** gedare has quit IRC (Quit: Ex-Chat) 2012-03-20T19:55:52 *** xiangfu has joined #rtems 2012-03-20T20:51:49 *** zw_yao has joined #rtems 2012-03-20T21:11:34 *** xiangfu has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2012-03-20T21:48:58 *** xiangfu has joined #rtems 2012-03-20T22:05:11 *** soh_cah_toa has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2012-03-20T22:19:58 *** xiangfu has quit IRC (Read error: No route to host) 2012-03-20T22:31:16 *** xiangfu has joined #rtems 2012-03-20T22:35:59 *** xiangfu has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2012-03-21T00:16:07 *** panzon has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2012-03-21T00:48:41 *** xiangfu has joined #rtems 2012-03-21T00:50:38 *** xiangfu has joined #rtems 2012-03-21T00:56:47 *** xiangfu has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2012-03-21T01:05:12 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2012-03-21T01:51:41 *** zw_yao has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2012-03-21T02:00:22 *** cancelme is now known as stefane 2012-03-21T03:15:59 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2012-03-21T06:58:50 *** xiangfu has joined #rtems 2012-03-21T07:03:11 *** xian9fu has joined #rtems 2012-03-21T07:03:14 *** xiangfu has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2012-03-21T07:13:23 *** xian9fu has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2012-03-21T07:15:50 *** xian9fu has joined #rtems 2012-03-21T07:50:56 *** xian9fu has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2012-03-21T08:40:05 *** weiY has joined #rtems 2012-03-21T09:06:07 *** weiY has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2012-03-21T09:08:18 *** weiY has joined #rtems 2012-03-21T09:18:27 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) 2012-03-21T09:31:33 *** rtemsLogger has joined #rtems 2012-03-21T11:00:53 *** weiY has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2012-03-21T12:10:26 *** gedare has joined #rtems 2012-03-21T12:22:56 *** cdcs has joined #rtems 2012-03-21T13:12:46 *** Dhruva92 has joined #rtems 2012-03-21T13:14:52 On the Rtems idea list for GSOC 2012, there is an idea about SMP for RTEMS. Can anyone tell me what exactly that would entail? 2012-03-21T13:25:27 dhruva92: there are a lot of ways that the SMP work that has been done with RTEMS can be improved 2012-03-21T13:26:45 I see. Is there a starting point or documentation that I can go through to get a better idea? 2012-03-21T13:29:44 Dhruva92: I'm not sure what there is available. You might try asking on the mailing list. I'm looking around to see if there is any documentation somewhere 2012-03-21T13:30:45 The thing to do would be to try getting an SMP rtems to run on Qemu 2012-03-21T13:31:00 I personally have not tried to do it 2012-03-21T13:31:53 Ah. I 2012-03-21T13:32:03 I'll try that then 2012-03-21T13:49:09 *** sevikkk has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2012-03-21T13:49:50 *** sevikkk has joined #rtems 2012-03-21T14:29:36 *** Dhruva92 has left #rtems 2012-03-21T14:32:31 *** cdcs has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2012-03-21T14:36:04 *** soh_cah_toa has joined #rtems 2012-03-21T14:38:54 hi soh_cah_toa 2012-03-21T14:39:05 gedare: howdy :) 2012-03-21T14:39:39 joel's email summarized things nicely. the bsd tcp/ip project is already underway 2012-03-21T14:40:13 ok 2012-03-21T14:40:23 but getting LWIP to work and be maintainable would be a good project, and then working on making device drivers agnostic to the stack will be good too 2012-03-21T14:41:08 i had a thought that we might be able to use some kind of "virtual networking layer" so that applications can use either stack interchangeably (at least move from using LWIP to the BSD stack easily) 2012-03-21T14:41:22 you mean modifying certain drivers so that they can freely change between the freebsd stack and lwip w/o any code changes? 2012-03-21T14:41:24 and that could also abstract the differences between the stacks for nic drivers 2012-03-21T14:41:41 yeah ok 2012-03-21T14:41:42 yeah, or adding a layer that can translate calls appropriately to either stack 2012-03-21T14:41:49 i like it 2012-03-21T14:41:58 since the BSD stack is presumably a superset of LWIP there will not be a perfect match 2012-03-21T14:42:16 true 2012-03-21T14:42:16 but the idea is that projects can start with LWIP if they use small form-factor chips 2012-03-21T14:42:20 and if they have to scale up it should be easy 2012-03-21T14:42:28 and we want to have drivers that work across both 2012-03-21T14:42:49 lwip actually has a bsd sockets compatability layer so implementing that would be drivers could interchange each stack freely 2012-03-21T14:43:00 s/be/mean/ 2012-03-21T14:43:22 great. i'm not too familiar with either stack (or the networking code in general) but think this is a good project idea 2012-03-21T14:43:48 yeah. fortunately lwip has great documentation so it's easy to understand 2012-03-21T14:44:13 great 2012-03-21T14:44:19 once i'm done w/ my hello world example, i'll begin investigating a little further 2012-03-21T14:45:22 good. you'll need to get a networking-capable build, i think x86/qemu might work. talk to Joel about how to best approach it and whether their initial work with the 8.2 bsd port is available or what the timeline is 2012-03-21T14:46:11 ok 2012-03-21T14:46:35 there is a basic loopback test (loop) in the rtems source tree under testsuites/samples/loopback and more extensive networking applications in a separate git repo "network-demos" 2012-03-21T14:46:50 ok 2012-03-21T14:46:52 is the freebsd tcp/ip stack port on a separate branch? 2012-03-21T14:47:05 i believe they are merging it into rtems-libbsd.git 2012-03-21T14:47:12 ok 2012-03-21T14:49:20 *** Dhruva92 has joined #rtems 2012-03-21T14:50:54 so is there any type of weekly meetings for discussing the current state of different projects? if i wanted to know what's currently being actively developed on rtems, where would i look? 2012-03-21T14:51:14 to keep up to speed, so to speak 2012-03-21T14:51:42 right now there is not, mostly we use the ml or random developer chats 2012-03-21T14:51:58 ok 2012-03-21T14:53:47 we might try to have meetings during the GSOC this year to deliver status updates and such 2012-03-21T14:54:09 ok great 2012-03-21T14:59:48 so about how many students work w/ rtems each summer? 2012-03-21T15:00:26 last year we had 8 students. 2012-03-21T15:00:54 neat 2012-03-21T15:03:33 that's one of the things that attracted me to the rtems project. you guys had done gsoc for a couple years so you'd be familiar w/ all the in's and out's of the program 2012-03-21T15:04:05 plus the projects wiki was up only about a week after gsoc 2012 was first announced. very prompt :) 2012-03-21T15:04:54 yes we try to stay on top of things 2012-03-21T15:05:13 gsoc is a great resource for us --- this is how I really got into RTEMS 2012-03-21T15:05:29 oh neat 2012-03-21T15:05:56 there's another student program that rtems participates in, correct? i believe it's a space/aeronautics program? 2012-03-21T15:09:53 yes we participated in the inaugural european space agency SOC 2012-03-21T15:10:10 RTEMS is used in quite a few space missions / satellites both by ESA and by NASA 2012-03-21T15:10:32 yeah, i noticed that. very neat 2012-03-21T15:10:48 where do you go to school? 2012-03-21T15:11:41 i'm from new jersey and i'm still stuck in bergen community college. hopefully, next semester i'll be at william paterson university 2012-03-21T15:13:19 ahh. good luck then 2012-03-21T15:13:22 :) 2012-03-21T15:14:58 right now, i'm actually taking a system analysis and design class which is good so i can plan the design of my gsoc project out properly :) 2012-03-21T15:16:14 for me, the hardest part of gsoc is determining a general timeline. though it might be a little easier this time w/ a gantt chart or network diagram 2012-03-21T15:16:31 *** panzon has joined #rtems 2012-03-21T15:17:44 yeah. have you seen the application template we prefer students to use? 2012-03-21T15:18:01 i think it gives some guidelines for milestones, at least points in time to place them. 2012-03-21T15:18:41 yes 2012-03-21T15:21:17 anyway as long as you can break your project into subtasks (preferably that can each be committed) then you will be on a good track 2012-03-21T15:21:27 right 2012-03-21T16:20:03 *** DrJoel has joined #rtems 2012-03-21T16:20:03 *** DrJoel has joined #rtems 2012-03-21T16:20:03 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DrJoel 2012-03-21T16:20:07 *** DrJoel has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2012-03-21T16:29:21 *** Dhruva92 has left #rtems 2012-03-21T19:11:28 *** gedare has quit IRC (Quit: Ex-Chat) 2012-03-21T20:35:42 *** xiangfu has joined #rtems 2012-03-21T20:56:14 *** weiY has joined #rtems 2012-03-21T22:47:43 *** panzon_ has joined #rtems 2012-03-21T22:49:44 *** panzon has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) 2012-03-21T22:55:48 *** panzon__ has joined #rtems 2012-03-21T22:58:16 *** panzon_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2012-03-21T23:04:24 *** weiY has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2012-03-22T00:17:33 *** panzon__ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2012-03-22T00:26:05 *** weiY has joined #rtems 2012-03-22T01:55:15 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2012-03-22T04:47:22 *** stefane has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2012-03-22T05:52:25 *** cdcs has joined #rtems 2012-03-22T07:11:09 *** cdcs has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2012-03-22T07:12:00 *** cdcs has joined #rtems 2012-03-22T07:18:00 *** DrJoel has joined #rtems 2012-03-22T07:18:00 *** DrJoel has joined #rtems 2012-03-22T07:18:00 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DrJoel 2012-03-22T10:19:35 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2012-03-22T10:35:04 *** xiangfu has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2012-03-22T10:59:19 *** weiY has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2012-03-22T10:59:45 *** weiY has joined #rtems 2012-03-22T11:00:15 Hi drjoel 2012-03-22T11:22:55 hi guy 2012-03-22T11:23:07 any idea about how to create a raw socket with rtems ? 2012-03-22T11:23:59 hey weiY 2012-03-22T11:24:20 juli1, it should be the same as on FreeBSD. 2012-03-22T11:24:54 will have a look indeed. Trying socket(AF_LINK, SOCK_RAW,0) does not seem to work :-/ 2012-03-22T11:26:44 drjoel, i have created a gsoc draft proposal. if you have space time any comments are welcom 2012-03-22T11:27:28 juli1, ask on mailing list. Many more network programmers there 2012-03-22T11:27:56 weiY, Atomic operations? 2012-03-22T11:28:02 yes 2012-03-22T11:28:26 If yes, it is in my queue. I have spent all week in meetings. I am on an Open Group stds group and 4 days of this week are meetings. 2012-03-22T11:28:42 Is it shared with everyone appropriate? 2012-03-22T11:29:14 I see gedare has already commented. 2012-03-22T11:29:39 Well at least now it is up in a window on my computer.. that improves things. I will feel bad about leaving tomorrow if it isn't read by then LOL 2012-03-22T11:29:49 hah, ok. Now i have shared it with chris , gedare, and you. Gedare is active for commenting 2012-03-22T11:31:24 there are some time for me to improve. then i will publish it to maillist 2012-03-22T11:32:30 Now i have to go to bed. see you. 2012-03-22T11:34:25 *** panzon has joined #rtems 2012-03-22T11:36:49 *** weiY has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2012-03-22T11:37:20 DrJoel: in fact, you cannot use the data link layer directly 2012-03-22T11:37:31 you need to access to what they call the "bpf"device 2012-03-22T11:38:55 Hmmm... if the current stack doesn't have it, then we need to make sure we pull the code in on the stack upgrade 2012-03-22T11:39:37 current stack has the .h file parts but not the C files 2012-03-22T11:39:57 rtems-libbsd.git appears to have the right C files but we are still working on porting it 2012-03-22T11:41:24 current stack has a tap ability if you want to look at packets at a low level 2012-03-22T11:42:45 you mean, there is no /dev/bpfX device actually ? 2012-03-22T11:43:21 and I have no idea of how a tap device works 2012-03-22T11:52:36 yes. there is no /dev/bpfX device right now. The stack is missing the files to support it. 2012-03-22T11:52:52 rarf 2012-03-22T11:52:54 The stack version currently being ported does include the files so should support it 2012-03-22T11:53:04 hmmmm 2012-03-22T11:53:10 who is doing this work ? 2012-03-22T11:54:52 grep if_tap in cpukit/libnetworking .. you can see every packet just as it comes into the stack and evaluate it 2012-03-22T11:55:08 ok but can I also send raw packets using tap ? 2012-03-22T11:55:24 OAR. Using the FreeBSD 8.2 source base also used for the USB stack port by embedded brains 2012-03-22T11:56:43 With any luck in the next month, it may be starting to run. We are trying to resolve all the symbols that get pulled in when linking a NIC in now. Many issues were sorted out to support USB. We are adding onto that base for TCP/IP 2012-03-22T11:58:08 ok, that seems nice 2012-03-22T11:58:10 So far.. drivers (without BSP glue) for Intel Pro/1000, EtherExpress Pro, all Broadcomm, DEC Tulip, SMC 9111x, and Realtek are compiling 2012-03-22T11:58:39 ok, I look at the tap thing and I see I can make my tap routine to read incoming packets 2012-03-22T11:59:01 really fairly cool.. trying to keep FreeBSD source unmodified as much as possible and provide RTEMS implementations of low level BSD kernel services to make the code happy 2012-03-22T11:59:12 yep, I understand 2012-03-22T11:59:22 but is there a way to help you guys ? 2012-03-22T11:59:26 plenty of opportunities for people to help. We will only add glue for a couple of BSPs and test a couple of NICs. 2012-03-22T11:59:51 I mean, on my side, I really need that working quite soon (raw ethernet). Enable the BPF stuff would be the cleanest way to proceed, no ? 2012-03-22T12:00:05 you mean, at this time, it works well ? 2012-03-22T12:00:43 http://wiki.rtems.org/wiki/index.php/TCP/IP_update has the list of tasks we know of so far that are not in our scope 2012-03-22T12:01:14 ok 2012-03-22T12:01:19 I will have to go right now 2012-03-22T12:01:19 The USB is supposed to work. We are still trying to get a TCP/IP program to link successfully with a driver linked in 2012-03-22T12:01:22 bye 2012-03-22T12:01:26 I will have a look at it tomorrow morning 2012-03-22T12:43:06 *** cdcs has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2012-03-22T13:05:31 *** DrJoel has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2012-03-22T13:06:29 *** krispaul has joined #rtems 2012-03-22T14:59:11 *** Dhruva92 has joined #rtems 2012-03-22T15:09:37 *** Dhruva92 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2012-03-22T15:09:59 *** Dhruva92 has joined #rtems 2012-03-22T15:15:24 ugh...the root password for the CentOS isn't Virtual0 2012-03-22T15:15:27 like the wiki says 2012-03-22T15:15:47 CentOS vm image, that is 2012-03-22T15:16:59 oh wait, i think it's just b/c the rtems user isn't in the sudoers file 2012-03-22T15:17:05 let's see... 2012-03-22T15:19:20 # echo 'rtems ALL=(ALL) ALL' >> /etc/sudoers 2012-03-22T15:19:23 yay, got! 2012-03-22T16:04:49 *** Dhruva92 has left #rtems 2012-03-22T16:26:41 *** gedare has joined #rtems 2012-03-22T16:52:23 *** gedare has quit IRC (Quit: Ex-Chat) 2012-03-22T17:51:58 *** panzon has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2012-03-22T18:04:56 *** panzon has joined #rtems 2012-03-22T18:11:58 *** Dhruva92 has joined #rtems 2012-03-22T18:12:24 *** Dhruva92 has left #rtems 2012-03-22T20:16:06 *** xiangfu has joined #rtems 2012-03-22T21:51:59 *** soh_cah_toa has quit IRC (Quit: hasta la pasta!) 2012-03-22T22:10:27 *** weiY has joined #rtems 2012-03-22T23:26:39 *** himsin has joined #rtems 2012-03-22T23:32:35 *** himsin has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2012-03-23T01:03:46 *** xiangfu has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2012-03-23T03:05:08 *** panzon has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2012-03-23T03:27:51 *** himsin has joined #rtems 2012-03-23T03:31:29 *** zw_yao has joined #rtems 2012-03-23T03:32:29 *** panzon has joined #rtems 2012-03-23T03:52:34 *** xiangfu has joined #rtems 2012-03-23T04:01:18 *** zw_yao has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2012-03-23T04:03:07 *** weiY has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2012-03-23T04:16:42 *** kiwichris has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2012-03-23T04:21:14 *** kiwichris has joined #rtems 2012-03-23T04:22:22 yop 2012-03-23T07:38:09 *** xiangfu has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2012-03-23T07:45:59 *** weiY has joined #rtems 2012-03-23T07:59:55 *** weiY has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2012-03-23T08:00:31 *** weiY has joined #rtems 2012-03-23T08:48:35 *** stefane has joined #rtems 2012-03-23T09:37:02 *** himsin has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2012-03-23T09:38:30 *** weiY has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2012-03-23T10:29:47 *** himsin has joined #rtems 2012-03-23T10:37:07 *** gedare has joined #rtems 2012-03-23T10:51:21 hi gedare :) 2012-03-23T10:51:25 hey juli1 2012-03-23T10:52:51 is somebody working on the libbsd for rtems ? 2012-03-23T10:56:06 yeah it is actively being done by OAR 2012-03-23T10:56:35 also there is a student who is interested in doing some work with the network side of things to support both lwIP and BSD networking 2012-03-23T10:57:05 check out http://git.rtems.org/rtems-libbsd.git/ 2012-03-23T10:57:11 yep I got it 2012-03-23T10:57:18 but it does not build on pc386 bsp 2012-03-23T10:57:22 ok. they're working on the nics right now 2012-03-23T10:57:29 they haven't successfully linked / tested yet 2012-03-23T10:57:34 and I do not see any doc/help regarding the use of freebsd-to-rtems.py script 2012-03-23T10:57:35 WIP 2012-03-23T10:57:59 but I would like to contribute :-) 2012-03-23T10:58:02 you could try sending joel an email 2012-03-23T10:58:08 i will 2012-03-23T11:26:37 *** camcelme3 has joined #rtems 2012-03-23T11:29:38 *** stefane has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2012-03-23T11:48:29 *** Dhruva92 has joined #rtems 2012-03-23T12:36:34 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2012-03-23T12:51:31 *** himsin has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2012-03-23T12:54:40 *** Dhruva921 has joined #rtems 2012-03-23T12:55:44 *** Dhruva92 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2012-03-23T13:09:35 *** gedare has quit IRC (Quit: Ex-Chat) 2012-03-23T13:57:06 *** himsin has joined #rtems 2012-03-23T15:47:31 *** kiwichris has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2012-03-23T15:52:16 *** kiwichris has joined #rtems 2012-03-23T16:18:47 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC (Read error: Connection timed out) 2012-03-23T16:19:29 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2012-03-23T16:38:29 *** panzon has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2012-03-23T16:50:38 *** panzon has joined #rtems 2012-03-23T17:25:51 *** soh_cah_toa has joined #rtems 2012-03-23T17:30:14 *** Dhruva921 has left #rtems 2012-03-23T18:49:32 *** himsin has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2012-03-23T19:24:25 *** panzon has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2012-03-23T20:44:48 *** panzon has joined #rtems 2012-03-23T21:55:43 *** weiY has joined #rtems 2012-03-23T22:00:25 *** soh_cah_toa has quit IRC (Quit: hasta la pasta!) 2012-03-24T00:44:49 *** xiangfu has joined #rtems 2012-03-24T01:11:01 *** xian9fu has joined #rtems 2012-03-24T02:00:04 *** xian9fu has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2012-03-24T02:11:43 *** lcpfnvcy has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2012-03-24T03:40:50 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2012-03-24T03:55:01 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2012-03-24T04:07:33 *** zw_yao has joined #rtems 2012-03-24T05:49:04 *** lcpfnvcy has joined #rtems 2012-03-24T06:02:23 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2012-03-24T06:17:26 *** xiangfu has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2012-03-24T07:05:39 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2012-03-24T07:05:39 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2012-03-24T07:21:56 *** zw_yao has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2012-03-24T07:41:31 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2012-03-24T09:51:22 *** akarsh_es has joined #rtems 2012-03-24T10:29:28 *** gedare has joined #rtems 2012-03-24T11:05:09 *** weiY has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2012-03-24T11:19:16 good morning 2012-03-24T11:20:07 *** cdcs has joined #rtems 2012-03-24T11:26:00 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2012-03-24T12:00:36 *** Dhruva92 has joined #rtems 2012-03-24T12:10:00 *** akarsh_es has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2012-03-24T12:51:41 *** cdcs has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2012-03-24T13:57:08 *** jasonpang has joined #rtems 2012-03-24T14:00:55 *** jasonpang has left #rtems 2012-03-24T14:05:42 *** jasonpang has joined #rtems 2012-03-24T15:24:25 hi all 2012-03-24T15:30:05 hello 2012-03-24T15:30:30 gedare: so, I am already listed as mentor for gsoc I guess, right ? 2012-03-24T15:30:37 yeah 2012-03-24T15:30:39 how can I tell the projects I would like to be on? 2012-03-24T15:30:46 after students submit proposals 2012-03-24T15:30:56 there will be a button on their proposal in the melange interface 2012-03-24T15:30:59 ok 2012-03-24T15:31:02 great 2012-03-24T15:33:24 *** Hesham has joined #rtems 2012-03-24T15:33:50 Hey 2012-03-24T15:34:00 hello 2012-03-24T15:34:41 hi hesham 2012-03-24T15:35:00 hi Mr gedare 2012-03-24T15:35:19 i want to ask some questions about high-level API 2012-03-24T15:35:24 i still don't have permissions to comment on your proposal 2012-03-24T15:35:52 sure 2012-03-24T15:36:08 Oh sorry , i will give you the permissions soon 2012-03-24T15:36:25 Hesham: feel free to ask 2012-03-24T15:36:28 ok. i sent a list of emails to give permissions 2012-03-24T15:36:52 I think you have some good start on understanding the idea of Arenas... 2012-03-24T15:37:07 One primary issue to clear up is that the solution must not be dependent on "pages" 2012-03-24T15:37:24 done 2012-03-24T15:37:42 i sent you a different email to share it with if you please. 2012-03-24T15:37:53 i haven't set up a google account with my rtems.org email 2012-03-24T15:38:00 it may be with pages or regions 2012-03-24T15:38:10 it's ok 2012-03-24T15:38:33 correct... we want the high-level API to be independent of how the hardware manages memory permissions / attributes. 2012-03-24T15:39:05 Some architectures have the idea of page tables, and some architectures have some simple set of registers that can define regions of memory 2012-03-24T15:39:08 yes that's what i want to do 2012-03-24T15:39:14 ok great. 2012-03-24T15:39:25 Thanks I can comment now. 2012-03-24T15:39:39 yeah many arm families only have MPU only 2012-03-24T15:40:23 yeah, so there will be some limits in how many regions can be active at a time. these limits will come from what hw can support and what can be managed deterministically 2012-03-24T15:40:39 that's ok 2012-03-24T15:40:53 but what if the core does not have MPU/MMU 2012-03-24T15:40:54 ? 2012-03-24T15:41:12 nothing happens 2012-03-24T15:41:22 we should minimize overhead in this case or emit a configuration error 2012-03-24T15:41:34 No protection in that case 2012-03-24T15:41:37 yep 2012-03-24T15:41:42 that is ok 2012-03-24T15:41:53 in all cases the use of arenas must be optional 2012-03-24T15:42:07 the idea of Arena can be entirely implemented by regions only 2012-03-24T15:42:20 yeah 2012-03-24T15:42:38 it must be defined in the building configuration of RTEMS 2012-03-24T15:42:40 right ? 2012-03-24T15:43:05 whether the user want memory protection or not 2012-03-24T15:44:14 Yes we should probably make the # of Arenas a configure option 2012-03-24T15:44:23 kind of like how users configure numbers of tasks/semaphores etc... 2012-03-24T15:44:49 and then the Arena code only will get used if the CONFIGURE_NUM_ARENAS > 0 2012-03-24T15:45:05 yeah 2012-03-24T15:45:20 Can two tasks reside in one Arena ? 2012-03-24T15:45:27 yeah 2012-03-24T15:45:50 we want to make it as general as possible while considering the limitations of the hardware 2012-03-24T15:46:25 some tasks might share memory completely...whereas other tasks might be separated 2012-03-24T15:46:37 then when task switch occurs what should be done with task-arena 2012-03-24T15:46:39 ? 2012-03-24T15:47:04 there will probably be a few generic uses, e.g. you could define an arena that includes all of .text in the executable region, and the rest of RAM in r/w mode, which should prevent r/w into the code space 2012-03-24T15:47:11 you mean their addresses overlap 2012-03-24T15:47:34 might overlap, or might share a single arena so there is no ovhd on the task switch 2012-03-24T15:47:56 if the heir and executing tasks are in the same arena there should be no overhead to task switch 2012-03-24T15:48:09 but if the arena changes then we have to unload the current protection and load the new ones 2012-03-24T15:48:54 we'll have to add some extra code in the task switch that checks if an arena is being used or not 2012-03-24T15:49:50 And the address space for each task in the Arena will be different than another task in the same Arena 2012-03-24T15:50:43 no, the same. if two tasks share the same arena then they have identical access to memory 2012-03-24T15:51:24 if two tasks share all the same arenas then their address space is identical 2012-03-24T15:51:30 makes sense? 2012-03-24T15:52:04 but what if the two tasks are in memory at the same arena , and each task wanna have its own memory for .text ? 2012-03-24T15:52:36 tasks can be in multiple arenas 2012-03-24T15:52:49 that's ok 2012-03-24T15:52:50 limited only by the hardware support for # of regions 2012-03-24T15:52:59 for example 2012-03-24T15:53:00 so.. task1 and task2 could share a heap arena 2012-03-24T15:53:04 and each have their own .text arena 2012-03-24T15:53:10 and their own stack-space arena 2012-03-24T15:53:35 let's make it clear 2012-03-24T15:53:38 sure 2012-03-24T15:53:49 if we have two tasks 2012-03-24T15:54:21 each one divided into regions (.text , .heap , .stack ) 2012-03-24T15:54:38 we define an Arena for all tasks .text regions 2012-03-24T15:55:01 and give it read only attrib 2012-03-24T15:55:05 right ? 2012-03-24T15:55:09 (execute/read) 2012-03-24T15:55:17 yeah 2012-03-24T15:55:32 but each task has to have its own region of the arena 2012-03-24T15:56:05 that depends on what the user wants to do... in reality you probably would just put all of your code in a single r/x region and not care about which task runs it 2012-03-24T15:56:29 but yes it is possible to also define each task having its own r/x region for per-task code that is unshared 2012-03-24T15:56:57 then you will have separate arenas for each task to define the execute region 2012-03-24T15:57:16 and every task switch has to change the hw to load the heir task's arena 2012-03-24T15:57:49 so arenas are not defined at the init process 2012-03-24T15:58:19 but they are defined when forking a task , and put its regions in it 2012-03-24T15:58:33 yeah that's one way they could be used 2012-03-24T15:58:48 An arena is just a region of memory and a set of tasks that can access that memory 2012-03-24T15:59:01 The set of arenas that a thread "belongs" to defines that threads address space 2012-03-24T15:59:53 And when switching between tasks, the context switch has to unload the executing task's arenas and load the heir tasks 2012-03-24T16:00:03 this means we need a fast way to iterate over a task's arenas 2012-03-24T16:00:17 it make sense know 2012-03-24T16:00:25 there might also be a reason to iterate over an arena's tasks, but I don't quite know what that would be yet. 2012-03-24T16:00:38 ((perhaps to do some kind of event notification)) 2012-03-24T16:01:20 but the overhead of context switch is the most important to keep small and deterministic 2012-03-24T16:01:20 making a queue list in ACB that contains the tasks belongs to the same Arena ? 2012-03-24T16:01:47 probably. and then also in the task control block a queue list of arenas for that task. 2012-03-24T16:02:06 in order to do the ctxt switch fast 2012-03-24T16:02:31 and...probably a set of "global" arenas that are defined for all tasks 2012-03-24T16:02:44 that what i wanna ask about 2012-03-24T16:02:51 global Arenas 2012-03-24T16:03:03 one for all tasks .text 2012-03-24T16:03:14 and one for all tasks stacks 2012-03-24T16:03:23 ........... heap , data 2012-03-24T16:03:52 but if a context switch occurs 2012-03-24T16:04:17 and the next task will write in the same heap arena for example 2012-03-24T16:04:37 where will the previous heap data go ? 2012-03-24T16:05:08 An arena can be either global (shared by all tasks) or non-global (might not be shared). 2012-03-24T16:05:22 The reason to make the distinction is that some hw might be able to manage the global arenas efficiently 2012-03-24T16:05:47 So, if an application defines the heap as a global arena, then on the context switch the heir task will have the same heap as the executing task 2012-03-24T16:06:40 And it will be expected that the tasks use the heap manager (malloc) to manage the heap memory and they don't write outside of the buffers that malloc allocates them. 2012-03-24T16:07:11 From the arena perspective the tasks are sharing a region of memory with r/w permissions and doesn't care how the tasks use that region 2012-03-24T16:07:13 it is clear now 2012-03-24T16:07:29 The tasks could write all over each others data in that region...its up to the programmers to prevent that 2012-03-24T16:07:44 yeah i got it 2012-03-24T16:07:53 if global arenas make things too complicated you can start with purely task-local arenas 2012-03-24T16:08:32 with each task have its own set of arenas that are not shared ? 2012-03-24T16:10:08 don't care if they're shared or not 2012-03-24T16:10:13 just swap them all on the ctxt switch 2012-03-24T16:10:46 some might be shared... and later we can investigate if hw can avoid swapping the shared arenas 2012-03-24T16:11:30 ok 2012-03-24T16:11:44 The Design is clear now 2012-03-24T16:11:52 should i edit the doc ? 2012-03-24T16:12:20 yes keep working at it 2012-03-24T16:12:57 when the official proposal period opens you will copy-paste into the melange format, but the google doc is a useful way to keep everyone in the loop. 2012-03-24T16:13:25 we'll also want to rename the API functions to be consistent with the notion of arenas 2012-03-24T16:13:59 That will be in the first stage my proposed project 2012-03-24T16:14:12 ok great 2012-03-24T16:14:12 redesigning the high-level API 2012-03-24T16:14:55 Could you give me an overall feedback and negative points to work on it? 2012-03-24T16:15:17 yeah i'll try to put some time toward it 2012-03-24T16:15:27 work on fixing any parts that are more clear to you now that we chatted 2012-03-24T16:15:47 no matter how long the proposal is ? 2012-03-24T16:15:58 Hesham: size does not matter :D 2012-03-24T16:16:40 Google book says it matter 2012-03-24T16:17:11 clarity is most important 2012-03-24T16:17:29 size only matters if its too long it won't get thoroughly read 2012-03-24T16:17:54 i got it 2012-03-24T16:17:55 and if its too short you might be lacking some important details or your plan may feel incomplete. 2012-03-24T16:18:02 i'll give some feedback. 2012-03-24T16:18:11 thanks :) 2012-03-24T16:18:11 rarf, no place for humour here 2012-03-24T16:18:15 sniff :-/ 2012-03-24T16:20:01 i gave it a grin 2012-03-24T16:21:02 *** soh_cah_toa has joined #rtems 2012-03-24T16:27:28 *** Hesham has left #rtems 2012-03-24T16:49:00 *** Dhruva92 has left #rtems 2012-03-24T16:50:56 :-) 2012-03-24T17:06:47 heh 2012-03-24T18:05:51 *** kiwichris has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2012-03-24T20:08:01 *** gedare has quit IRC (Quit: Ex-Chat) 2012-03-24T20:21:31 *** zw_yao has joined #rtems 2012-03-24T21:09:03 *** soh_cah_toa has quit IRC (Quit: hasta la pasta!) 2012-03-24T21:18:27 *** kiwichris has joined #rtems 2012-03-24T22:37:48 *** weiY has joined #rtems 2012-03-24T23:11:44 *** weiY has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2012-03-25T01:43:58 *** jasonpang has quit IRC (Quit: jasonpang) 2012-03-25T01:44:16 *** jasonpang has joined #rtems 2012-03-25T01:49:27 *** jasonpang has left #rtems 2012-03-25T02:19:09 *** panzon_ has joined #rtems 2012-03-25T02:22:07 *** panzon has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2012-03-25T02:49:22 *** stefane has joined #rtems 2012-03-25T02:50:46 *** stefane has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2012-03-25T02:52:22 *** stefane has joined #rtems 2012-03-25T03:27:58 *** stefane has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2012-03-25T03:28:00 *** zw_yao has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2012-03-25T05:45:19 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2012-03-25T07:52:47 *** zw_yao has joined #rtems 2012-03-25T07:54:04 *** zw_yao has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2012-03-25T10:32:09 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2012-03-25T11:01:50 *** gedare has joined #rtems 2012-03-25T11:02:34 good morning 2012-03-25T11:14:30 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2012-03-25T11:17:15 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2012-03-25T11:17:16 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2012-03-25T11:29:27 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2012-03-25T11:40:09 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2012-03-25T11:40:10 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2012-03-25T14:42:22 *** Hesham has joined #rtems 2012-03-25T14:46:26 hey Mr gedare 2012-03-25T14:46:33 hi hesham. 2012-03-25T14:46:57 did you see my doc after i had edited it ? 2012-03-25T14:47:49 yep.. i think you have the right idea.. anything to both make it easier for us to know that you understand what you plan to do, and for you to have a solid plan to work from 2012-03-25T14:47:57 i just made a couple more comments for you 2012-03-25T14:48:29 by the way... i'd encourage you to try to do as much of the "design" work in the Preparation phase 2012-03-25T14:48:52 that will be a good time to get feedback and make sure you have a roadmap for the whole summer to code from 2012-03-25T14:49:44 Make it clear in your proposal when you will develop the subtasks for your different stages 2012-03-25T14:50:37 i already have divided the the first stage into sub-tasks 2012-03-25T14:52:17 i am using the simulator attached to gdb , but i thought QEMU would be better , what is your advice ? 2012-03-25T14:52:19 yep I saw that you have some subtasks for the functionality of arenas. you'll also have to deal with the issue of naming in the API and with where the implementation of the API should live... those will be issues to take up with the community and your mentor though. 2012-03-25T14:52:26 try to get qemu to work. 2012-03-25T14:53:18 i will try 2012-03-25T14:53:19 at this point other than doing some cleanup work in your proposal the only thing to really strengthen it will be if you know you will be able to use Qemu to test your work. 2012-03-25T14:53:41 ask on the list for help if you need it 2012-03-25T14:53:54 i know some people use qemu with arm, and i also know there are some issues for some of the bsps 2012-03-25T14:54:47 ok i will 2012-03-25T14:55:08 So any thing else should be added/edited in the Doc ? 2012-03-25T14:55:56 no obvious deficiencies just make it look nice. the better your proposal the more likely to get accepted, and you will also likely refer to it as you work and when you write your reports. 2012-03-25T14:56:27 make sure there aren't any gaps or things missing in it that you will need to work on or figure out 2012-03-25T14:56:52 the goal is to minimize surprises. it's ok if you don't know how to do something, but it is best if you know that you don't know :) 2012-03-25T14:58:11 is not it lookin good ? :) 2012-03-25T14:59:54 that's why i had added analyzing phase to each stage 2012-03-25T15:00:20 it would be best to get as much of your analysis done earlier 2012-03-25T15:00:30 so you have a whole picture in your head as you work 2012-03-25T15:00:37 that will be in the preparation phase 2012-03-25T15:00:50 of course you won't be able to do all of it and you may have to revise your initial designs... 2012-03-25T15:00:57 And the high-level design 2012-03-25T15:01:12 Once the high-level design has been finished 2012-03-25T15:01:36 i think no much time would be needed for analyzing 2012-03-25T15:01:39 yeah. then it should be easier to see what the gaps were in your thinking beforehand. 2012-03-25T15:02:40 yes. i was just thinking in terms of the MMU/MPU capabilities of the ARM, and the variance among different ARM platforms 2012-03-25T15:02:57 but this is nit-picking really 2012-03-25T15:03:38 I have studied a really cool book about ARM that make an overall picture of how ARM deals with memory protection 2012-03-25T15:03:41 think about how you plan to work and make sure your plan is reflected in your proposal... that is most important 2012-03-25T15:03:44 good 2012-03-25T15:04:07 its in the references in my doc 2012-03-25T15:04:57 I hope to get all things clear in the preparation stage 2012-03-25T15:05:31 by contacting with mentors , community , more searches 2012-03-25T15:05:33 ok. one other issue to clarify at some point is what to do in the high-level API when an application tries to use arenas but the target architecture does not have the low-level implementation yet 2012-03-25T15:06:11 you told me yesterday "Nothing happens " 2012-03-25T15:06:22 probably it should be detected and prevented at compile-time instead:) 2012-03-25T15:06:35 spit an error at the user 2012-03-25T15:06:46 so they don't think they are using arenas and getting the benefits when in fact they are not 2012-03-25T15:07:21 should i clear that in the proposal ? 2012-03-25T15:07:34 yeah because that is something that needs to be implemented properly. 2012-03-25T15:07:53 that's ok 2012-03-25T15:08:20 and you'll want to test it somehow,for example by compiling your testcases on an architecture without support (such as sparc) 2012-03-25T15:08:52 or even arm..since it won't have the low-level support yet :) 2012-03-25T15:09:16 ok :) 2012-03-25T15:09:52 So what i have to edit is what happens when a target that does not have mmu/mpu use arenas 2012-03-25T15:10:47 ? 2012-03-25T15:11:04 yep! 2012-03-25T15:11:17 another question 2012-03-25T15:11:38 (It's actually just trying to use a target that does not have the low-level implemented...the target might have the hw capability but we might not have written the code to manage it yet.) 2012-03-25T15:12:40 you mean we did not implement mid/low level to implement it 2012-03-25T15:12:43 right ? 2012-03-25T15:14:12 yep 2012-03-25T15:15:18 should i submit the proposal to google once it opens ? 2012-03-25T15:16:53 yep you can continue to revise it until the submission period ends 2012-03-25T15:17:20 you should continue to maintain your google doc version though. it will be easier for you to refer back to and to copy-paste from for reports and other things. 2012-03-25T15:18:19 *** A2Sheds has quit IRC (Quit: puff of smoke) 2012-03-25T15:18:30 That's ok 2012-03-25T15:19:04 Thanks Mr gedare , you helped me a lot :) 2012-03-25T15:19:43 you're welcome 2012-03-25T15:19:46 *** L84Supper has joined #rtems 2012-03-25T15:23:28 *** Hesham has left #rtems 2012-03-25T15:23:56 *** gedare has quit IRC (Quit: Ex-Chat) 2012-03-25T15:35:57 *** gedare has joined #rtems 2012-03-25T17:38:30 *** kiwichris has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2012-03-25T17:43:32 *** kiwichris has joined #rtems 2012-03-25T19:27:55 *** gedare has quit IRC (Quit: Ex-Chat) 2012-03-25T19:40:45 *** L84Supper has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2012-03-25T19:43:20 *** L84Supper has joined #rtems 2012-03-25T20:53:55 *** xiangfu has joined #rtems 2012-03-25T23:54:58 *** L84Supper has quit IRC (Quit: puff of smoke) 2012-03-25T23:55:06 *** A0Sheds has joined #rtems 2012-03-25T23:55:07 *** A0Sheds has joined #rtems