2011-05-09T00:45:42 *** projectgus has quit IRC 2011-05-09T00:57:47 High speed radar/sonar data 2011-05-09T01:12:24 *** sebhub has joined #rtems 2011-05-09T01:12:49 good morning 2011-05-09T01:15:07 *** sqm has quit IRC 2011-05-09T02:58:43 kiwichris: you have any time today to work on the file-watching list? 2011-05-09T04:46:56 *** xiangfu has quit IRC 2011-05-09T06:03:08 *** sqm has joined #rtems 2011-05-09T06:31:41 *** methril_work has joined #rtems 2011-05-09T07:58:40 *** xiangfu has joined #rtems 2011-05-09T08:17:31 *** lj8175 has joined #rtems 2011-05-09T10:08:13 *** sebhub has quit IRC 2011-05-09T10:08:14 *** xiangfu has quit IRC 2011-05-09T10:33:16 *** dimonov has quit IRC 2011-05-09T10:34:16 *** dimonov has joined #rtems 2011-05-09T11:03:52 *** sqm has quit IRC 2011-05-09T11:04:28 *** lj8175 has quit IRC 2011-05-09T11:25:51 *** cssmith1 has joined #rtems 2011-05-09T12:24:41 *** antgreen has joined #rtems 2011-05-09T12:24:53 *** gedare has joined #rtems 2011-05-09T14:29:49 *** gedare has quit IRC 2011-05-09T14:40:54 *** DrJoel has joined #rtems 2011-05-09T14:40:54 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DrJoel 2011-05-09T15:23:29 chirp.. chirp.. 2011-05-09T15:23:32 was that a pin drop? 2011-05-09T15:23:55 ;) 2011-05-09T15:24:53 * DrJoel is happy to have a "normal" monday for a change 2011-05-09T15:25:23 :-) 2011-05-09T15:26:39 i had fun day too.. ordered stuff for my latest project :) 2011-05-09T15:27:48 hobby project :) 2011-05-09T15:28:17 nice to have hobbies.. we went to Renaissance Fair yesterday. Lots of cool pictures on my facebook 2011-05-09T15:33:07 okay :) 2011-05-09T15:34:52 cool clothes and castles and stuff? 2011-05-09T15:35:31 there is a castle (someone lives there) but it required a bus ride we didn't take. Yes.. we do have the costumes. :D 2011-05-09T15:36:29 ;) 2011-05-09T15:37:19 how was the food 2011-05-09T16:55:32 Hello 2011-05-09T17:25:28 *** cssmith1 has left #rtems 2011-05-09T17:39:14 *** projectgus has joined #rtems 2011-05-09T17:57:26 *** DrJoel has quit IRC 2011-05-09T18:33:34 *** DrJoel has joined #rtems 2011-05-09T18:33:34 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DrJoel 2011-05-09T18:39:06 *** DrJoel has quit IRC 2011-05-09T19:35:36 *** xiangfu has joined #rtems 2011-05-09T20:25:46 does anyone know of any current PC-104 form factor boards with good RTEMS support? 2011-05-09T20:25:57 I see the "Bobcat" x86 boards were well supported but the vendor's pages all say "EOL" 2011-05-09T20:26:28 I would ask on the list. I know some EPICS based sites have been looking at some. 2011-05-09T20:27:18 will do: 2011-05-09T20:27:22 :) 2011-05-09T20:27:28 Great. 2011-05-09T20:40:01 *** sqm has joined #rtems 2011-05-09T21:11:21 *** kristianpaul has quit IRC 2011-05-09T21:11:26 *** kristianpaul has joined #rtems 2011-05-09T22:26:20 *** kristianpaul has quit IRC 2011-05-09T22:26:28 *** kristianpaul has joined #rtems 2011-05-09T22:26:28 *** kristianpaul has joined #rtems 2011-05-09T22:43:21 *** xiangfu has quit IRC 2011-05-10T00:29:03 *** xiangfu has joined #rtems 2011-05-10T00:39:35 *** xiangfu has quit IRC 2011-05-10T00:51:36 *** sebhub has joined #rtems 2011-05-10T00:52:02 *** xiangfu has joined #rtems 2011-05-10T00:58:36 good morning 2011-05-10T01:11:09 *** xiangfu has quit IRC 2011-05-10T01:19:53 *** Err has quit IRC 2011-05-10T01:20:11 *** Err has joined #rtems 2011-05-10T01:21:15 *** sqm has quit IRC 2011-05-10T01:44:44 *** xiangfu has joined #rtems 2011-05-10T01:50:41 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2011-05-10T01:50:41 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2011-05-10T01:59:54 *** projectgus has quit IRC 2011-05-10T02:08:09 sebhub: hi 2011-05-10T02:18:28 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC 2011-05-10T02:19:21 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2011-05-10T02:19:31 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2011-05-10T03:44:34 sebhub, hi 2011-05-10T04:00:21 hi chris 2011-05-10T04:00:36 Getting the IMFS eval sorted. 2011-05-10T04:01:04 that is great, got a couple of crashes due to that 2011-05-10T04:01:11 Breaks in a relative cd up (/../) in psxmount. 2011-05-10T04:01:22 *** lekernel has joined #rtems 2011-05-10T04:01:29 Sorry about that. I bug it fixes is real 2011-05-10T04:01:58 no problem, its only on a test machine 2011-05-10T04:01:58 NASA hit with the RFS on a project. 2011-05-10T04:02:24 the nasa uses rfs? 2011-05-10T04:02:30 We will buildbot running online soon. That should catch these things. 2011-05-10T04:02:33 Yeap. 2011-05-10T04:02:37 cool 2011-05-10T04:02:38 It was written for them. 2011-05-10T04:04:51 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC 2011-05-10T04:52:51 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2011-05-10T06:06:41 *** lekernel has quit IRC 2011-05-10T06:15:36 *** lekernel has joined #rtems 2011-05-10T06:56:22 *** DrJoel has joined #rtems 2011-05-10T06:56:22 *** DrJoel has joined #rtems 2011-05-10T06:56:22 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DrJoel 2011-05-10T06:56:32 hi DrJoel 2011-05-10T06:56:37 hey lekernel 2011-05-10T06:56:45 for the milkymist bsp patches: do you want one big patch, or several small ones? 2011-05-10T06:57:03 I have like a dozen drivers to add/modify ... all in the same bsp though 2011-05-10T06:57:52 sebhub: any opinion? If all in a single BSP, I normally don't care that much. Review it all until it passes then merge it. 2011-05-10T06:58:07 if impacting outside a single BSP, things need to be smaller and reviewed better 2011-05-10T06:58:25 for a single BSP, there has to be a level of trust. And it is mostly style, etc issues we will pick on you for 2011-05-10T06:59:08 In rtems-testing cvs module, check in the merge_helpers and make that script happy. It checks a lot 2011-05-10T06:59:59 it would be nice to be more relaxed with cvs commit rights for particular bsps 2011-05-10T07:05:15 DrJoel: there's also the FTPD authentication patch which I need... I'm not sure if you merged it already 2011-05-10T07:07:23 *** lj8175 has joined #rtems 2011-05-10T07:18:45 2011-04-04 Sebastien Bourdeauducq 2011-05-10T07:18:45 PR 1722/networking 2011-05-10T07:18:45 * ftpd/ftpd.c: FTPD fails to parse correctly FTP commands relating to 2011-05-10T07:18:45 filenames with spaces in them. 2011-05-10T07:18:58 is the only one I see in ChangeLog. Email me the PR and I will check on it 2011-05-10T07:22:56 *** DrJoel has quit IRC 2011-05-10T07:44:53 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC 2011-05-10T09:25:18 *** sebhub has quit IRC 2011-05-10T10:27:46 *** gedare has joined #rtems 2011-05-10T10:39:26 *** lj8175 has quit IRC 2011-05-10T10:59:52 *** xiangfu has quit IRC 2011-05-10T11:34:25 *** DrJoel has joined #rtems 2011-05-10T11:34:29 *** DrJoel has joined #rtems 2011-05-10T11:34:29 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DrJoel 2011-05-10T12:01:49 *** antgreen has quit IRC 2011-05-10T12:56:25 *** shayden has joined #rtems 2011-05-10T13:15:44 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2011-05-10T13:15:44 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2011-05-10T13:23:32 *** Shisui has joined #rtems 2011-05-10T13:23:43 Hi :) 2011-05-10T13:31:23 hello! 2011-05-10T13:35:59 hello DrJoel ! 2011-05-10T13:37:53 erm, I have a little question about libbsdport : is there anything which could prevent me to build it for the 4.11 CVS head ? 2011-05-10T13:42:43 Shisui: nothing that I know of. It may make some exception/interrupt assumptions which aren't true on ARM. Primary uses are on PowerPC and x86 so just ask on list if an issue 2011-05-10T13:47:02 I'm building the lib for pc*86 BSPs 2011-05-10T13:47:10 everything runs fine but make complains about a missing header : "rtems/bsd/sys/queue.h" 2011-05-10T13:48:09 since the configure script didn't reports any error/warning I guess I've given the right paths to RTEMS install-dir, I'm a bit confused.. 2011-05-10T13:52:25 Did you build your own tools? 2011-05-10T13:54:05 try changing it to sys/queue.h .. looks like it might have moved since I last built 2011-05-10T14:13:58 nice, it works ! 2011-05-10T14:14:01 thanks DrJoel 2011-05-10T14:15:04 I had to deal with others issues like disappeared commands from the build system ("install-if-change"), but it finally compiled, as well as the test application. 2011-05-10T14:50:34 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC 2011-05-10T15:29:54 *** Guest24774 has joined #rtems 2011-05-10T15:32:03 *** shayden has quit IRC 2011-05-10T16:11:06 *** Shisui has quit IRC 2011-05-10T16:22:44 *** joel_ has joined #rtems 2011-05-10T16:23:27 verm__: have you tried the new machine? 2011-05-10T16:25:25 just copying over my homedir now 2011-05-10T16:25:50 i sent another note about it, can you put a gige card into rtbf32a? 2011-05-10T16:28:44 when we get one. :-D 2011-05-10T16:28:57 it will get done when it is upgraded to 64-bit OS 2011-05-10T16:29:39 Chris has to get some stuff off of there. 2011-05-10T16:30:29 i noticed /home is the platter drive 2011-05-10T16:30:37 i'd like that moved to /opt or something 2011-05-10T16:30:53 /home should be on the SSD 2011-05-10T16:31:09 hmm i guess it can't be /opt that's where the toolchain files are perhpas mount it to /data 2011-05-10T16:36:25 email jeff to move it.. 2011-05-10T16:36:32 with an explanation why 2011-05-10T16:37:31 that's the way it was originally before the re-install to get TRIM 2011-05-10T16:37:43 except /opt was the platter drive, i forgot the toolchain files go there so we don't want them on the platter 2011-05-10T16:37:52 i'll send an email in a moment 2011-05-10T16:38:43 Lou doesn't normally do the OS installs. Jeff was just following normal patterns here. /home is never on the root OS disk so upgrades can wipe things if needed and /home is preserved 2011-05-10T16:38:58 I asked for /opt to be on SSD so RTEMS tools would be quicker 2011-05-10T16:39:58 * DrJoel is heading home.. head hurts and tired 2011-05-10T16:39:58 night 2011-05-10T16:40:05 may pop on later from home 2011-05-10T16:40:07 *** DrJoel has quit IRC 2011-05-10T16:42:32 *** gedare has quit IRC 2011-05-10T17:19:34 *** projectgus has joined #rtems 2011-05-10T17:25:59 *** antgreen has joined #rtems 2011-05-10T19:55:58 *** xiangfu has joined #rtems 2011-05-10T19:56:30 *** xiangfu_ has joined #rtems 2011-05-10T20:00:26 *** xiangfu has quit IRC 2011-05-10T20:24:00 *** xiangfu_ has quit IRC 2011-05-10T20:24:11 *** xiangfu has joined #rtems 2011-05-10T20:25:45 *** Guest24774 has left #rtems 2011-05-10T23:52:25 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2011-05-11T00:42:34 *** Shisui has joined #rtems 2011-05-11T00:42:47 Shisui, hi 2011-05-11T00:56:41 *** Shisui has quit IRC 2011-05-11T00:57:38 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC 2011-05-11T01:03:09 *** projectgus has left #rtems 2011-05-11T01:06:57 *** projectgus has joined #rtems 2011-05-11T01:21:06 *** sebhub has joined #rtems 2011-05-11T01:21:17 good morning 2011-05-11T01:40:14 sebhub, hi 2011-05-11T02:32:28 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2011-05-11T02:32:28 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2011-05-11T03:40:09 *** xiangfu has quit IRC 2011-05-11T03:44:24 *** xiangfu has joined #rtems 2011-05-11T04:23:05 *** dimonov has quit IRC 2011-05-11T04:23:41 *** antgreen has quit IRC 2011-05-11T04:24:01 *** antgreen has joined #rtems 2011-05-11T04:27:35 *** dimonov has joined #rtems 2011-05-11T04:30:09 *** xiangfu has quit IRC 2011-05-11T04:39:43 *** lekernel has quit IRC 2011-05-11T05:13:15 *** kiwichris has quit IRC 2011-05-11T05:18:25 *** kiwichris has joined #rtems 2011-05-11T05:34:26 *** projectgus has quit IRC 2011-05-11T07:08:47 *** antgreen has quit IRC 2011-05-11T07:33:39 *** lj8175 has joined #rtems 2011-05-11T07:39:53 *** lj8175 has quit IRC 2011-05-11T07:42:24 *** lj8175 has joined #rtems 2011-05-11T07:52:14 *** xiangfu has joined #rtems 2011-05-11T08:18:18 *** DrJoel has joined #rtems 2011-05-11T08:18:18 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DrJoel 2011-05-11T08:53:19 *** xiangfu has quit IRC 2011-05-11T10:03:59 *** cssmith has joined #rtems 2011-05-11T10:05:21 *** gedare has joined #rtems 2011-05-11T10:07:42 *** sebhub has quit IRC 2011-05-11T10:41:10 drjoel: i'll check those PRs during my lunch 2011-05-11T10:43:03 thanks.. Jennifer and I are creating a flurry of PRs and we really want to get past them and onto the next phase 2011-05-11T10:43:28 drjoel: I was thinking it might be nice idea to make an rtems-dev mailing list 2011-05-11T10:43:34 and combine some of those other mls that are floating around 2011-05-11T10:43:51 mls? Major League Soccer? 2011-05-11T10:43:55 mailing lists sorry 2011-05-11T10:45:41 LOL... yes.. and I feel behind on gsoc already. Haven't heard much from any students.. some of that may be being behind 2011-05-11T10:49:27 yeah. my student is finishing his master's thesis 2011-05-11T10:50:54 * DrJoel was just behind .. and is leaving for Germany in 15 days.. so hectic 2011-05-11T10:51:40 *** shayden has joined #rtems 2011-05-11T10:57:16 *** lj8175 has quit IRC 2011-05-11T11:00:39 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC 2011-05-11T11:01:35 *** antgreen has joined #rtems 2011-05-11T11:47:07 *** gedare has quit IRC 2011-05-11T13:41:16 *** cssmith has left #rtems 2011-05-11T13:42:47 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2011-05-11T14:28:13 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC 2011-05-11T14:40:53 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2011-05-11T14:40:53 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2011-05-11T17:14:24 *** projectgus has joined #rtems 2011-05-11T17:23:58 * DrJoel waves hi.. 2011-05-11T17:36:29 *** DrJoel has quit IRC 2011-05-11T19:59:52 *** xiangfu has joined #rtems 2011-05-11T20:45:18 *** methril has joined #rtems 2011-05-11T21:38:02 *** kiwichris has quit IRC 2011-05-11T21:50:12 *** kiwichris has joined #rtems 2011-05-11T23:21:36 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC 2011-05-11T23:32:10 *** shayden has quit IRC 2011-05-11T23:54:38 *** kiwichris has quit IRC 2011-05-12T00:08:53 *** kiwichris has joined #rtems 2011-05-12T01:25:51 *** xiangfu has quit IRC 2011-05-12T01:53:29 *** sebhub has joined #rtems 2011-05-12T02:16:12 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2011-05-12T02:33:59 *** qmor has joined #rtems 2011-05-12T02:34:05 hello 2011-05-12T02:34:26 can anyone describe nvdisk block structure? 2011-05-12T02:35:35 i don't understand how a should write and read data. and where i should plase or get the CRC for block 2011-05-12T02:37:32 i have farmat the rfs file system on my device 2011-05-12T02:39:39 and now when i'm trying to mount it, i have an error about CRC fault 2011-05-12T02:40:01 nvdisk:error:read-block: crc failure: 1: buffer:f0b7 page:2022 2011-05-12T02:58:25 *** xiangfu has joined #rtems 2011-05-12T03:12:14 *** qmor has left #rtems 2011-05-12T03:23:36 *** qmor has joined #rtems 2011-05-12T04:55:07 *** qmor has left #rtems 2011-05-12T05:52:50 *** qmor has joined #rtems 2011-05-12T05:52:56 *** qmor has left #rtems 2011-05-12T07:15:45 kiwichris: around? 2011-05-12T07:52:06 *** shayden has joined #rtems 2011-05-12T08:31:11 *** xiangfu has quit IRC 2011-05-12T08:31:32 *** lj8175 has joined #rtems 2011-05-12T08:46:52 *** DrJoel has joined #rtems 2011-05-12T08:46:52 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DrJoel 2011-05-12T09:22:53 *** xiangfu has joined #rtems 2011-05-12T09:46:36 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC 2011-05-12T09:50:42 hi Joel, are you my mentor this year , I'm that gcj boy 2011-05-12T09:55:44 I have send you an email to your gmail :) 2011-05-12T10:04:54 *** xiangfu has quit IRC 2011-05-12T10:21:23 thanks for doing this. Now let's get started..need to read it. What's next? 2011-05-12T10:23:26 still a problem in bdwgc have not been settled, but I want to try to porting gcj tommorrow 2011-05-12T10:24:29 there should be some related work before , is there some document ? 2011-05-12T10:24:41 or some code for me to refer ? 2011-05-12T10:33:34 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2011-05-12T10:33:34 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2011-05-12T10:39:18 not that I know of. It is a good question for bdwgc list. Are you on it? We both need to join and track 2011-05-12T10:42:01 yes , i have joined bdwgc mailing list 2011-05-12T10:42:26 I need to join.. start asking questions. We both get to learn. This is computer science. If you stop learning, then you rot 2011-05-12T10:45:54 thank you , i may ask many questins, hope you will not be bored :) 2011-05-12T10:48:03 I love answering questions ..hope I can. :D 2011-05-12T10:49:41 how do you join their mailing list? 2011-05-12T10:53:20 ok.. emailing Tom Tromey.. have dealt with him in the past. Let's get help and get moving 2011-05-12T10:54:23 this page may help you,http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Hans_Boehm/gc/#contacts 2011-05-12T10:55:02 thank you :) 2011-05-12T10:57:54 I was looking at the admins for the sourceforge project. I am on the gcc steering committee so tend to get answers when I email folks associated with gcc. :-D 2011-05-12T11:04:11 *** lj8175 has quit IRC 2011-05-12T11:10:44 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC 2011-05-12T11:11:09 *** antgreen has quit IRC 2011-05-12T11:31:04 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2011-05-12T11:31:04 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2011-05-12T11:47:34 *** methril_work has quit IRC 2011-05-12T11:48:33 *** methril_work has joined #rtems 2011-05-12T12:06:13 *** cssmith has joined #rtems 2011-05-12T12:08:19 *** sebhub has quit IRC 2011-05-12T12:22:00 *** panzon has joined #rtems 2011-05-12T12:45:43 hi 2011-05-12T12:46:26 hey panzon .. what's up? 2011-05-12T12:52:24 I'm back men 2011-05-12T12:59:01 bravo? welcome back? 2011-05-12T13:19:27 how are things going? 2011-05-12T13:30:42 *** shayden has quit IRC 2011-05-12T14:10:55 what the 2011-05-12T14:11:02 something is screwed up with rtbf64c 2011-05-12T14:12:54 like what? 2011-05-12T14:13:10 * DrJoel didn't do anything and desperately looks for a scapegoat 2011-05-12T14:13:23 well jeff moved /home to /data 2011-05-12T14:13:38 Right? That was what you wanted I thought 2011-05-12T14:13:43 /users is not immutable for some reason.. ralph said he moved my homedir to /users/amar 2011-05-12T14:13:55 but for some reason moving /home to /data broke everything 2011-05-12T14:14:01 i don't know what's going on 2011-05-12T14:14:45 linking my homedir back in /home seems to have fixed it, but ralph told me this was moved to /users/ so i don't get what's going on 2011-05-12T14:15:54 I am logged in now there.. what can I do to see the issue? 2011-05-12T14:16:14 nothing i've fixed it already ralph is going to ahve to fix it it 2011-05-12T14:16:28 what he said was going on is not what is happening 2011-05-12T14:16:45 :-D well.. that happens.. could be a mistake .. 2011-05-12T14:16:54 ah i see what he did 2011-05-12T14:16:57 he did it wrong, damn 2011-05-12T14:17:28 that's fine i'll figure it out 2011-05-12T14:17:30 FYI we are setting up an rtems-admin mailing list. You will be subscribed. Mainly related to admin requests, discussions 2011-05-12T14:17:39 great 2011-05-12T14:17:54 Email Jeff when you figure it out and let him know what needs to be what 2011-05-12T14:18:01 something like overseers@sourceware.org 2011-05-12T14:18:04 i can sort it out myself for now 2011-05-12T14:30:55 *** panzon has quit IRC 2011-05-12T14:41:44 *** Shisui has joined #rtems 2011-05-12T14:41:58 hi 2011-05-12T14:44:08 hey Shisui what's on your mind? 2011-05-12T15:02:53 *** cssmith has left #rtems 2011-05-12T15:35:06 verm__: is the buildbot running again? 2011-05-12T15:36:31 nope, i need to sort out a script to do cvs->git conversion first 2011-05-12T15:36:47 the conversion isn't very good but there's only one way to do it on-the-fly after a commit 2011-05-12T15:40:43 ok.. just was checking on if the output had grown and become more interesting. :D 2011-05-12T15:43:21 not yet, soon.. hopefully this weekend i'm working on other things at the moment 2011-05-12T15:43:35 i'll get it up and running w/out tests in the next 3-5 days or so 2011-05-12T15:44:54 no problem. and no hurry. Just was curious. 2011-05-12T16:00:34 so many things to do :( 2011-05-12T16:02:02 yep.. I was just getting to gsoc this week 2011-05-12T16:02:20 how many students are there? 2011-05-12T16:02:46 8 2011-05-12T16:03:05 a few of those are doing pure RTEMS projects.. some are more joint with other FOSS orgs 2011-05-12T16:03:15 joint? 2011-05-12T16:03:26 how does that work? 2011-05-12T16:04:28 really under our umbrella but Lua on RTEMS, porting GCJ to RTEMS, etc 2011-05-12T16:05:27 lua is really that big of a project? 2011-05-12T16:06:00 i would have thought getting lua to work would be fairly easy, what are the issues? 2011-05-12T16:07:09 we want it to be able to be used as an RTEMS Shell more tightly tied in with RTEMS commands. So an interactive use. They will end up cleaning up plugin points for multiple shells, multiple command line entry systems, etc 2011-05-12T16:07:44 ah, i see 2011-05-12T16:07:52 basic Lua functionality on RTEMS isn't hard. :-D 2011-05-12T16:08:03 yeah i figured that's why i asked hehe 2011-05-12T16:09:05 The current shell has no conditional logic support. We have about 100 commands but scripting is weak. 2011-05-12T16:10:25 why lua and not something like mini python? 2011-05-12T16:10:43 there are micro python interpreters that are <100K 2011-05-12T16:11:08 why not both? 2011-05-12T16:11:35 if it is a set of pluggable pieces then all can be supported. I know of current folks using Lua so this would improve their situation. 2011-05-12T16:11:40 Chris has run full Python 2011-05-12T16:11:47 http://www.tinypy.org/ 64K 2011-05-12T16:11:59 cool.. pass that along to Chris 2011-05-12T16:12:03 yeah i will 2011-05-12T16:12:24 and as for both.. i don't see any reason why not i was just curious, i wouldn't think as many users would use lua as python 2011-05-12T16:13:35 DrJoel: is there any work on getting rtems to compile under clang? 2011-05-12T16:14:57 not that I am aware of. 2011-05-12T16:16:05 ah.. 2011-05-12T16:16:56 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC 2011-05-12T16:17:21 i might try it sometime soon 2011-05-12T16:17:47 it has a very nice static checker too 2011-05-12T16:18:11 which could be pretty useful i think 2011-05-12T16:18:13 I have tried the static checker. Doesn't know cross compilation. Look for me in their mailing list archive 2011-05-12T16:18:29 how long ago was that? 2011-05-12T16:18:44 in the past year for sure. Probably since mentor summit 2011-05-12T16:19:05 clang is moving rapidly since apple dropped gcc and threw all their effort behind clang 2011-05-12T16:20:18 yes for x86 it is a good choice. I don't know about arm or other cpus. That was one of the issues. It will very likely never be able to be a total solution for us 2011-05-12T16:20:51 it will be eventually, i don't think gcc will last 2011-05-12T16:21:21 in fact i belive there's zero chance it will past the next 5 years 2011-05-12T16:22:01 i don't think it'll take too long for the more exotic targets to arrive in clang it's a lot easier than adding one to gcc 2011-05-12T16:23:03 I'm not saying it shouldn't be tracked. Just that we have more requirements to do anything like that than most projects. 2011-05-12T16:23:27 Trying it on for i386-rtems would be interesting. Will need to build newlib as well 2011-05-12T16:23:48 that's what i was suggesting, just i386 only, beacuse at least we'll get the checking 2011-05-12T16:23:57 as long as rtems can compile and run OK under it 2011-05-12T16:25:18 I am interested. We are risk averse.. and that requires proactive checking "the next big thing" 2011-05-12T16:25:37 The world has changed a lot since RTEMS was started and we adapt 2011-05-12T16:26:22 yeah.. another good thing would be a posix compliance suite 2011-05-12T16:26:28 RTEMS has (in the past) been compiled with multiple non-GNU compilers. So shouldn't be too much of a problem except definining the build sequence and teaching it our include setup 2011-05-12T16:26:36 those aren't cheap though 2011-05-12T16:26:42 Yep. 2011-05-12T16:27:09 Maybe Daddy Warbucks will show up wanting a tax write-off 2011-05-12T16:27:49 what filesystems does rtems support? 2011-05-12T16:27:54 *** Shisui has quit IRC 2011-05-12T16:28:30 pjd wrote a filesystem posix test for freebsd 2011-05-12T16:28:39 it's probably worthwhile to tear that out and use it for rtems 2011-05-12T16:28:42 FAT, IMFS (In-Memory), RFS (RTEMS File System), NFS client, (T)FTP client, Device FS 2011-05-12T16:29:17 IMFS and RFS should be POSIX compliant 2011-05-12T16:29:34 http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/tools/regression/pjdfstest/ 2011-05-12T16:30:11 the tests subdirs has the tests, ~3500 tests 2011-05-12T16:30:47 ouch.. what scripting language is this in? 2011-05-12T16:31:26 it's not he wrote his own 2011-05-12T16:31:30 see pjdfstest.c 2011-05-12T16:33:35 hmmm... that might come close to working now .. who is pjd? 2011-05-12T16:33:57 Pawel Jakub Dawidek 2011-05-12T16:34:10 he ported zfs to freebsd, wrote HAST did many other raid geom classes 2011-05-12T16:34:21 and a whole ton of other work -- he focuses on filesystems 2011-05-12T16:35:15 we could probably just take the entire directory as-is and run the tests, would be worth a cursory look in any case 2011-05-12T16:35:21 I need to check that out on my laptop and see if I find travel time to play with it. :-D 2011-05-12T16:35:29 hehe 2011-05-12T16:35:53 it will require some rtems config glue but likely not much.. 2011-05-12T16:36:04 probably not 2011-05-12T16:36:30 http://svn.freebsd.org/base/head/tools/regression/pjdfstest/ subversion checkout 2011-05-12T16:39:09 this will have to have rtems config code to run.. defaults in RTEMS are too low to open a file, device nodes only in filesystem, etc. Defaults are VERY low. :-D 2011-05-12T16:39:49 heh 2011-05-12T17:26:58 *** DrJoel has quit IRC 2011-05-12T17:39:29 *** shayden has joined #rtems 2011-05-12T17:40:37 *** projectgus has quit IRC 2011-05-12T17:44:00 *** projectgus has joined #rtems 2011-05-12T17:49:27 *** kiwichris has quit IRC 2011-05-12T18:36:36 *** kiwichris has joined #rtems 2011-05-12T19:31:23 *** xiangfu has joined #rtems 2011-05-12T19:51:41 *** shayden has quit IRC 2011-05-12T21:08:11 *** bernauer has joined #rtems 2011-05-12T21:08:17 *** bernauer has left #rtems 2011-05-12T22:13:22 *** methril has quit IRC 2011-05-12T22:19:54 *** dimonov has quit IRC 2011-05-12T22:25:20 *** dimonov has joined #rtems 2011-05-12T22:26:16 *** methril has joined #rtems 2011-05-12T22:27:11 *** antgreen has joined #rtems 2011-05-12T23:17:08 *** arvind_khadri has joined #rtems 2011-05-12T23:43:42 *** kiwichris has quit IRC 2011-05-12T23:59:10 *** arvind_khadri has quit IRC 2011-05-13T00:21:09 *** kiwichris has joined #rtems 2011-05-13T00:21:11 *** L84Supper has joined #rtems 2011-05-13T00:21:34 anyone around this time of the day? 2011-05-13T00:21:40 Yeap 2011-05-13T00:21:45 hi 2011-05-13T00:21:51 Hi 2011-05-13T00:22:18 we're looking around for a RTOS for an open embedded firmware project 2011-05-13T00:22:38 Great. What is the project ? 2011-05-13T00:23:01 coreboot is an open source firmware mainly for x86 pc's to replace AMI and Phoenix 2011-05-13T00:23:40 we are considering an open firmware for the embedded controllers found in notebooks and servers as well as IPMI controllers 2011-05-13T00:24:08 Ok. 2011-05-13T00:24:25 they traditionally have been 8051 types with a kludge of closed source assembly 2011-05-13T00:24:42 we are moving towards ARM socs 2011-05-13T00:24:47 Yeap like the keyboard one. 2011-05-13T00:25:06 Are these resource constrained devices ? 2011-05-13T00:25:23 yeas the EC does things like keyboard scan, battery charging, lid open/closed etc 2011-05-13T00:25:44 Nice. RTEMS can be scaled back to fit small devices. 2011-05-13T00:25:57 ARM soc's like the NXP LPC17xx and similar 2011-05-13T00:26:48 in servers the IPMI controller monitors the whole board and even has it's own OS and network+video out 2011-05-13T00:26:57 sort of a PC in a PC 2011-05-13T00:27:13 I can see LPT32XX and LPC24XX 2011-05-13T00:27:39 Yeah it seems like that. 2011-05-13T00:27:49 http://www.rtems.org/ftp/pub/rtems/people/chrisj/pq/html/arm.html 2011-05-13T00:28:01 is a list of ARM board support packages we currently have. 2011-05-13T00:29:10 closed source BIOS vendors just use spaghetti assembly 2011-05-13T00:29:11 we want to think ahead and start an open source project with a real OS and C libs 2011-05-13T00:29:11 RTEMS came up along with a few others like freertos 2011-05-13T00:29:19 RTEMS seems to have the most credibility 2011-05-13T00:29:43 We are GPL plus an exception to allow embedded applications. 2011-05-13T00:29:52 Same sort of license as libgcc 2011-05-13T00:30:24 we'd have to add support for some new SOC's but everyone involved is a low level firmware dev 2011-05-13T00:30:31 We tend to be seen as a large RTOS but we have been active is getting the size of RTEMS down in the last few years. 2011-05-13T00:30:55 We like the low level people. 2011-05-13T00:30:56 but we'd like to focus on the libs and applications vs the RTOS 2011-05-13T00:31:04 Nice. 2011-05-13T00:31:23 So how much memory do these devices have ? 2011-05-13T00:31:31 coreboot and flashrom are the same devs 2011-05-13T00:32:08 ok. Just taking a look now :) 2011-05-13T00:32:21 well traditional 8051's have very little and use external 64K of flash shared with the pc's system BIOS (1-2MB) 2011-05-13T00:32:41 I have done a lot of 8051 work in the past 2011-05-13T00:33:07 the newer ARM devices might have 512KB of internal flash and an external spi interface for booting from external flash 2011-05-13T00:33:24 Nice. How much RAM ? 2011-05-13T00:33:48 http://www.mouser.com/nxp_lpc17xx/ 2011-05-13T00:33:56 Thanks 2011-05-13T00:34:13 8KB - 64KB of SRAM 2011-05-13T00:34:26 8k is too small. 2011-05-13T00:35:09 Joel the RTEMS project lead is always keen to work with other projects. We can help get the foot print down. 2011-05-13T00:35:57 RTEMS focuses on standards and meeting them. 2011-05-13T00:37:22 So are these devices in notebooks now ? 2011-05-13T00:37:28 not yet 2011-05-13T00:37:32 Ah ok 2011-05-13T00:37:53 AMD just announced that they will be supporting coreboot on all their processors 2011-05-13T00:37:59 Nice. 2011-05-13T00:38:16 they actually do the ports and provide the source 2011-05-13T00:38:47 we want to move onto supporting the EC's in laptops and servers now with open firmware 2011-05-13T00:39:04 Great. It makes sense. I never understood the need to keep this code closed. 2011-05-13T00:39:12 since it's kind of goofy to have coreboot with a closed firmware in the EC 2011-05-13T00:39:33 it just tradition, and wintel control 2011-05-13T00:39:35 Yeah I agree. 2011-05-13T00:39:50 Intel actually tells its vendors to stay away from coreboot 2011-05-13T00:40:03 Well the original PC from IBM had the BIOS source code. I think I may still have a copy somewhere. 2011-05-13T00:40:37 Really. That is not being nice. 2011-05-13T00:40:41 linux doesn't need it and even widows since xp only uses about 2 calls back to BIOS 2011-05-13T00:41:08 Interesting. I think RTEMS has one or 2. I cannot remember. 2011-05-13T00:41:15 these guys would grind babies into chips if they felt they needed to 2011-05-13T00:41:20 Very early in the boot for memory to something. 2011-05-13T00:41:32 Interesting image 2011-05-13T00:42:25 so 16KB of RAM is the minimum? 2011-05-13T00:42:46 This is hard to say. It comes down to the complexity of the CPU. 2011-05-13T00:43:01 This sets the size of the task control block. 2011-05-13T00:43:23 http://www.coreboot.org/Embedded_controller here's is what has been in notebooks until now 2011-05-13T00:43:31 Then each task needs a stack. You break up your software into modules and you need stacks 2011-05-13T00:44:24 Yeah I suspect C or ASM and the C would be specific to the 8051 2011-05-13T00:44:43 Very small amount of RAM and a limited number of registers. 2011-05-13T00:44:49 an 8051 might have 2048 + 128 bytes of SRAM 2011-05-13T00:45:05 http://wiki.laptop.org/images/a/ab/KB3700-ds-01.pdf for example 2011-05-13T00:45:24 the ARM soc's are 32 bit with lots of support 2011-05-13T00:46:01 Yes they are. Being RISC have plenty of registers therefore TCB size. 2011-05-13T00:46:20 RTEMS uses a core allocator and this has an overhead. 2011-05-13T00:46:46 Then you need space of the tasking resources such as mutexs thread etc. 2011-05-13T00:47:04 we could just write a bunch of C routines but we'd like to offer an RTOS for more features 2011-05-13T00:47:10 On the +ve side you get a stable API and a deterministic OS 2011-05-13T00:47:59 The issue is down at 16K and 32k you start to hit specific limits. 2011-05-13T00:48:22 Code is not such an issue. It is RAM that is difficult. 2011-05-13T00:48:57 A long time developer for RTEMS should be about soon and he has ARM and small ARM experience. 2011-05-13T00:49:19 no worries 2011-05-13T00:49:28 where are you located? 2011-05-13T00:49:32 Australia. 2011-05-13T00:49:42 Sebastian is in Germany. 2011-05-13T00:49:43 heh... i meant town 2011-05-13T00:49:46 Sydney 2011-05-13T00:49:50 <--- US 2011-05-13T00:49:55 Where ? 2011-05-13T00:50:03 I have an office in Melbourne as well 2011-05-13T00:50:08 Nice. 2011-05-13T00:50:11 Chicago 2011-05-13T00:50:58 no rush, we are in the looking around stage now 2011-05-13T00:51:20 i actually started looking into this about 2 years ago 2011-05-13T00:51:27 In understand. I will let Joel know you popped by. He is in Huntsville in the US 2011-05-13T00:52:01 0:52 here 2011-05-13T00:52:12 I did wonder :) 2011-05-13T00:52:59 a server board vender has an open source app for IPMI but they used linux and an ARM with external RAM 2011-05-13T00:53:18 their SDK is 110MB, not sure of the size of the binary 2011-05-13T00:53:36 I didn't notice RTAI in the toolchain either 2011-05-13T00:53:38 Linux would need external RAM. Lots of it. 2011-05-13T00:54:33 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8a/SymbOS-PCW-1.gif 2011-05-13T00:54:42 symbos was another 2011-05-13T00:55:12 and ecos 2011-05-13T00:55:40 that screenshot reminds me of my old Mac512 2011-05-13T00:55:53 Yeah that is showing its age. 2011-05-13T00:56:32 I used to work with QNX and vxworks in another life 2011-05-13T00:57:04 I have used both. I used QNX back in 1989 when the task size was 64k 2011-05-13T00:57:11 http://www.freertos.org/ 2011-05-13T00:57:32 Yeah I chat to Richard from time to time. 2011-05-13T00:58:02 they seem to have lots of support for the new ARM soc's 2011-05-13T00:58:22 we need to compile with GCC 2011-05-13T00:58:31 that made the list shorter 2011-05-13T00:58:43 Yes. We are talking about a change in RTEMS to ARM EABI. 2011-05-13T00:58:50 We are currently ARM ELF. 2011-05-13T00:59:30 We also support ARM simulators. 2011-05-13T01:00:16 I am sure the ARM soc's are easy to support once you get a few done. 2011-05-13T01:00:49 then youd support all the smartphones and android tablets 2011-05-13T01:00:58 The issues with adding lots and lots is the need to test them 2011-05-13T01:01:32 Yeah I am sure we could if someone did a port. 2011-05-13T01:01:50 but if we are going to support large enterprise Linux users we need to have a credible RTOS 2011-05-13T01:02:04 Hmmm a droid tablet I suspect is cheaper than most ARM dev boards 2011-05-13T01:02:33 yes, and you get a screen + usb for a keyboard for under $200 2011-05-13T01:02:40 I understand. We are a long life cycle project. We have user such as NASA and ESA with long project life cycles. 2011-05-13T01:03:18 If you did a BSP and it was merged we would help support it. 2011-05-13T01:03:43 I use ARM tablets for development vs the dev boards 2011-05-13T01:03:47 one of the flashrom devs is expanding qemu support for ARM 2011-05-13T01:03:53 We are currently being buildbot online to help. It will kick off any one of 122 BSP builds based on commit 2011-05-13T01:03:59 so no problems with new board support 2011-05-13T01:04:08 We welcome it. 2011-05-13T01:05:14 you have network support 2011-05-13T01:05:36 Yeah we have a FreeBSD stack. It is showing its age but it is stable and works well. 2011-05-13T01:05:40 what about drivers for SPI, LPC, serial, USB etc 2011-05-13T01:06:00 There is a port of the FreeBSD USB driver as well which we want to merge. 2011-05-13T01:06:14 I am currently adding dlopen support for runtime loading of code 2011-05-13T01:06:43 Yes SPI and I2C are supported as well as termios for serial. 2011-05-13T01:07:00 You need more than 32K or RAM for these. 2011-05-13T01:07:39 if 64KB is max ram, what would we miss out on? 2011-05-13T01:08:03 No sure but termios is costly because it need cooked buffers etc. 2011-05-13T01:08:36 Networking with TCP and a FreeBSD type stack is costly. We do have a port of LwIP (I think?) 2011-05-13T01:10:13 I know the FreeBSD host USB stack uses memory because controllers like the EHCI have weird alignment constraints. 2011-05-13T01:10:26 eh 4K alignment for DMA 2011-05-13T01:13:03 http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OpenEC here's an example of what we would be doing without an RTOS 2011-05-13T01:13:32 the OLPC project wrote their own firmware for the 8051 2011-05-13T01:14:50 the controller is either polling a bunch of sensors and registers or servicing interrupts from the x86 chipset 2011-05-13T01:15:39 I understand the need for more structure once you decide to open these devices up. 2011-05-13T01:16:01 Adding code to polling routines is difficult even when you wrote the code 2011-05-13T01:16:46 my example earlier was how the current closed code is a just a kludge of patches that they hope work, they don't even know how it works anymore, it's like getting AC power in India 2011-05-13T01:17:03 http://www.evworld.com/press/indiancity_powerpole.jpg 2011-05-13T01:18:06 Also from here on in you develop code and then you have more RAM and can add allow user additions and your code need to change 2011-05-13T01:18:54 laptop makers also use the EC's for GPIO and to fix hardware mistakes 2011-05-13T01:19:32 so they need to tweak every model even if it has the same chipset and similar features 2011-05-13T01:19:33 I am sure. I have seen many embedded PC with hardware all around to work around PC interface and bus issues. 2011-05-13T01:21:04 well there are actually two different applications 2011-05-13T01:21:24 EC's in notebooks don't need networking or video support 2011-05-13T01:22:05 IPMI controllers need networking and video but they can have lots of external RAM 2011-05-13T01:22:41 Ah ok. 2011-05-13T01:22:54 so EC's are limited to 512KB internal flash and 64 KB sram 2011-05-13T01:23:21 *** Shisui has joined #rtems 2011-05-13T01:23:43 *** xiangfu has quit IRC 2011-05-13T01:23:44 the IPMI controllers might use 2MB of external flash and several MB of DDR2,3 2011-05-13T01:24:14 what about video/graphics support? 2011-05-13T01:24:25 The code space is ok. The RAM is difficult to answer and always changes. 2011-05-13T01:24:39 Users have ported microwindows. 2011-05-13T01:25:22 The IPMI is no problems. 2011-05-13T01:29:57 http://www.rtems.com/wiki/index.php/TinyRTEMS#Configuring_RTEMS_for_Size 2011-05-13T01:30:15 <64KB 2011-05-13T01:31:11 Yeap this what is support. I know of RTEMS being used on small memory Coldfires. 2011-05-13T01:31:26 We can work with projects to make this even smaller. 2011-05-13T01:32:00 We need targets and examples to work worth. When we see something using too much memory we will look at it. 2011-05-13T01:40:36 I'll be lurking around here for a while 2011-05-13T01:47:47 so are you done with the floods, forest fires and the locusts? 2011-05-13T01:48:22 It has been a difficult few months for all including the US. 2011-05-13T01:48:42 I am waiting for this to effect my insurance bills. 2011-05-13T01:49:36 at least you don't have to be fondled and groped when going through the airport 2011-05-13T01:51:07 I have travelled to the US many times in recent years. 2011-05-13T01:51:21 Also we have strict systems here. 2011-05-13T01:52:55 but you still drive on the wrong side of the road :) 2011-05-13T01:54:08 if this project takes off it will end up in millions of PC's 2011-05-13T01:56:18 Yeah we do and it only works if we all do it at the same time. :) 2011-05-13T01:58:30 *** projectgus has quit IRC 2011-05-13T02:29:19 *** Shisui has quit IRC 2011-05-13T03:39:33 *** xiangfu has joined #rtems 2011-05-13T04:01:11 *** sqm has joined #rtems 2011-05-13T04:51:14 *** xiangfu has quit IRC 2011-05-13T05:58:11 *** sqm has quit IRC 2011-05-13T06:09:05 *** sebhub has joined #rtems 2011-05-13T06:09:08 hi 2011-05-13T06:20:55 *** panzon has joined #rtems 2011-05-13T07:10:37 *** kiwichris has quit IRC 2011-05-13T07:15:37 *** kiwichris has joined #rtems 2011-05-13T07:27:46 *** sqm has joined #rtems 2011-05-13T09:07:31 *** lj8175 has joined #rtems 2011-05-13T09:48:33 *** shayden has joined #rtems 2011-05-13T09:53:32 hi sebhub 2011-05-13T09:56:02 any idea of the size of RAM that might be required for ARM devices? We are looking at servicing a SPI bus and lots of polling of registers 2011-05-13T09:56:32 http://www.rtems.com/wiki/index.php/TinyRTEMS#Configuring_RTEMS_for_Size looks like they got down near 64K 2011-05-13T10:02:24 *** lj8175 has quit IRC 2011-05-13T10:23:34 *** bazinski has joined #rtems 2011-05-13T10:25:29 *** sebhub has quit IRC 2011-05-13T10:27:56 *** DrJoel has joined #rtems 2011-05-13T10:27:56 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DrJoel 2011-05-13T10:28:27 *** gedare has joined #rtems 2011-05-13T10:29:06 * DrJoel waves hi 2011-05-13T10:29:18 hey drjoel: you guys having server issues? 2011-05-13T10:29:32 not that I know of.. what looks broken? 2011-05-13T10:32:19 rtems.org and rtems.com 2011-05-13T10:32:20 :P 2011-05-13T10:32:35 seems back up now 2011-05-13T10:32:41 just a temporary glitch i guess 2011-05-13T10:34:24 drjoel: with the IPI patch, why not use a function that takes an argument, e.g. _SMP_Request( rq ); 2011-05-13T10:34:39 or is it just inlining.. *looks closer* 2011-05-13T10:36:40 From the process interrupt method? 2011-05-13T10:36:53 ya. reviewing PR1796 2011-05-13T10:37:24 The process interrupt method is really a working hack/prototype. Since the _ISR_Handler doesn't do the global spin locks, it is hacky 2011-05-13T10:37:53 not sure where the interrupt processing will land exactly once the sparc and 386 irq_asm.S files are modified 2011-05-13T10:43:56 *** lj8175 has joined #rtems 2011-05-13T11:05:50 *** bazinski has left #rtems 2011-05-13T11:23:21 *** Shisui has joined #rtems 2011-05-13T11:57:03 *** Shisui has quit IRC 2011-05-13T12:02:37 *** gedare has quit IRC 2011-05-13T12:03:17 *** sqm has quit IRC 2011-05-13T12:03:46 *** lj8175 has quit IRC 2011-05-13T12:07:01 Hi DrJoel! 2011-05-13T12:07:35 hey peer.. be in Munich two weeks from today! 2011-05-13T12:07:56 from 27th? 2011-05-13T12:08:58 yes.. using air miles for family and needed to avoid flying on weekends.. so for once actually getting entire weekends in munich 2011-05-13T12:12:44 cool 2011-05-13T12:13:06 i afk for about an hour, are you still here later? 2011-05-13T12:14:28 yes.. should be 2011-05-13T12:15:21 Regular builds on FreeBSD is coming closer: http://www.amazon.de/gp/registry/wishlist/ref=topnav_wishlist 2011-05-13T12:15:40 that'll be the build machine (among other things) 2011-05-13T12:16:55 *** 20QAAQWMR has joined #rtems 2011-05-13T12:42:32 can anyone here point me to examples of how small RTEMS has been squeezed to fit into an ARM or other micro? 2011-05-13T13:02:11 The rtl22xx_t (thumb) has a minimum code space for a linked "real" executable of 16-20K depending on compiler and RTEMS versions 2011-05-13T13:02:31 We keep pushing down on that number but it requires know what can be left out and still have a useful RTOS 2011-05-13T13:30:25 for some of the ARM soc's we only have 64KB of internal SRAM and 512KB of internal Flash 2011-05-13T13:32:34 L84Supper: that should be plenty. There are many configuration options to reduce RAM usage. 2011-05-13T13:33:09 but all depends ultimately on what you want to do .. more functionality always means more code/data 2011-05-13T13:34:12 I recall one of the "low ticker" examples uses only about 5K for the OS for 4 tasks including stacks 2011-05-13T13:34:43 for EC's (embedded controllers) in laptops and servers it's mostly servicing interrupts on SPI and polling registers for GPIO and analog functions 2011-05-13T13:35:23 DrJoel: I'm back 2011-05-13T13:35:35 sounds like more than enough RAM and Flash 2011-05-13T13:35:39 hey peerst 2011-05-13T13:36:30 for the BMC in a managed server the ARM cpu can have external DDR (several megs) and SPI flash, but these will have video/graphics, networking, USB etc 2011-05-13T13:36:51 Linux + RTAI actually fits 2011-05-13T13:37:03 For the next project the customer decided to move to current rtems 2011-05-13T13:37:21 and they are also using FreeBSD as development machine 2011-05-13T13:37:32 nice 2011-05-13T13:37:32 L84Supper: ahhh.. then huge by RTEMS terms .. only a matter of what can be done without using DDR 2011-05-13T13:37:41 peerst: I thought verm__ would smile .. 2011-05-13T13:37:47 hehe 2011-05-13T13:38:09 peerst: i use freebsd as well, at home and professionally, along with other unices.. .no linux though 2011-05-13T13:38:10 verm__: you also on FreeBSD? 2011-05-13T13:38:15 peerst: meet amar/verm__ .. he is installing BuildBot for RTEMS here.. generous and talented volunteer from NTP 2011-05-13T13:38:37 NTP like ntp.org? 2011-05-13T13:38:38 DrJoel, I second that. 2011-05-13T13:39:02 verm__: peerst has BSD cred and RTEMS cred :-D 2011-05-13T13:39:04 BuildBot being the infrastructure for the daily builds? 2011-05-13T13:39:24 * DrJoel steps back.. but yes.. 2011-05-13T13:41:11 ok, so when my new project starts instead of building rtems once for the customer I could also set up BuildBot on the new machine and let it do it regularly 2011-05-13T13:41:48 unless it sucks up too many cpu time 2011-05-13T13:42:24 but it should be pretty fast on core i7 sandy bridge + the ocz vertex 3 2011-05-13T13:42:53 DrJoel: how would you compare RTEMS to freeRTOS? 2011-05-13T13:43:09 kiwichris: this is probably your question.. 2011-05-13T13:44:08 L84Supper: the main thing to keep in mind is that RTEMS includes a high level of standards compliance.. POSIX threads, file systems, TCP/IP stack, etc. Standard off the net UNIX packages tend to build for RTEMS if they don't use processes. 2011-05-13T13:44:25 They are GPL based yet RTEMS does not require a commercial license. 2011-05-13T13:44:37 RTEMS is also a complete environment.. threading, libc, malloc, etc. C, C++ and if you want it Ada and Go from GCC 2011-05-13T13:44:53 kiwichris: they==freeRTOS? 2011-05-13T13:45:10 I mean we are both GPL based. 2011-05-13T13:45:34 it looks like it has far more credibility than say freeRTOS, only we'd have to do some porting to new ARM soc's 2011-05-13T13:45:35 There is no commercial operation behind RTEMS. It is an open source community 2011-05-13T13:45:37 RTEMS is very carefully designed to have deterministic behavior.. critical operations execute in constant or bounded execution time.. 2011-05-13T13:46:21 that's true.. RTEMS "commercialism" is very traditional free software model.. software is free ... if you want support, customization, training, etc, then pay someone 2011-05-13T13:46:56 RTEMS follows standards. This lets the user avoid any lock in to RTEMS. 2011-05-13T13:47:03 RTEMS has been to Venus and Mars .. on way to asteroid belt. but that doesn't help you 2011-05-13T13:47:14 but we're only talking about ARM cortex M3 and M0 2011-05-13T13:47:21 but is way cool :-) 2011-05-13T13:47:23 We want users because they want RTEMS not because they are locked into our API. 2011-05-13T13:47:45 peerst: yep ntp.org 2011-05-13T13:47:46 we want the project completely open 2011-05-13T13:48:02 verm__: ok, cool 2011-05-13T13:48:18 it's an extension of coreboot (open firmware to replace BIOS in x86 PC's) 2011-05-13T13:48:38 peerst: i'll have the buildbot instance running soon.. there are a few blocking issues that i'm trying to get resolved 2011-05-13T13:48:44 then i'll make it public 2011-05-13T13:49:07 ok, I'll try it out as soon as you have something 2011-05-13T13:49:11 not diss'ing freeRTOS but public and open are definitely attributes of RTEMS 2011-05-13T13:49:16 peerst: i haven't tried building rtems on freebsd yet, how well does it work? 2011-05-13T13:49:23 we have had cpu and chipset support for years but laptops have typically used a 8051-ish EC to control power management, battery charging, lid open/closed and GPIO 2011-05-13T13:49:32 it mostly works 2011-05-13T13:49:34 the build system, that is 2011-05-13T13:49:37 mostly? 2011-05-13T13:49:48 now AMD ships coreboot with every cpu and chipset 2011-05-13T13:50:08 but there is no open firmware for the EC found in laptops and servers 2011-05-13T13:50:15 had some /bin/sh issues somwhere in the big pile of autoconf 2011-05-13T13:50:22 was actually a bug in freebsd 2011-05-13T13:50:32 oh really? that's pretty rare 2011-05-13T13:50:38 I think its fixed in FreeBSD and worked around in RTEMS 2011-05-13T13:50:45 this is where RTEMS comes in, it might be the RTOS for the EC 2011-05-13T13:51:14 it was this: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=146378 2011-05-13T13:51:47 oh, i remember that commit 2011-05-13T13:52:10 :-) really 2011-05-13T13:52:24 was caused by me trying to build rtems 2011-05-13T13:53:01 L84Supper: we are happy to work with you to meet your requirements. When pushing RTEMS down into smaller and smaller places, having real user requirements is important 2011-05-13T13:53:28 it could end up in millions of notebooks and servers 2011-05-13T13:53:45 I personally have no idea what the smallest set of useful features for an RTOS is.. so let users drive us 2011-05-13T13:54:10 I sure it depends on the application 2011-05-13T13:54:34 but EC's for PC's would be a large vertical application 2011-05-13T13:54:45 large=high volume 2011-05-13T13:54:57 while (1) { user_function(); wait_for_next_tick(); } 2011-05-13T13:55:14 hey I've written the smalles RTOS! ;-) 2011-05-13T13:55:15 L84Supper: if it means anything at all, we are a weird blend of free software and embedded mentality. we would love to be a part of the coreboot project 2011-05-13T13:55:39 peerst: I think you owe Wind River USD50K now. 2011-05-13T13:55:43 that requires a license. :-D 2011-05-13T13:55:50 rofl 2011-05-13T13:56:26 kiwichris: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/tools/regression/pjdfstest/ 3,500 tests that check for FS posix compliance 2011-05-13T13:56:36 i was on WindRivers contrctor payroll once 2011-05-13T13:56:46 see the tests subdir for various source, we should get this in our repo 2011-05-13T13:56:57 verm__, are these shell based ? 2011-05-13T13:57:16 DrJoel: the larger memory footprint BMC application there is a standard API for IPMI http://www.gnu.org/software/freeipmi/ 2011-05-13T13:57:16 no, he designed his own language 2011-05-13T13:57:21 verm__: I tried them.. don't build on Linux .. email maintainer 2011-05-13T13:57:22 just like every good test system should 2011-05-13T13:57:25 when they bought BSDI before the dissolved it an killed BSD/OS 2011-05-13T13:57:34 verm__, there is also a set of POSIX file tests on the ftp site somewhere that are shell based 2011-05-13T13:57:36 kiwichris: see pjdfstest.c 2011-05-13T13:57:47 verm__: they require prove which is Perl based.. don't know magnitude of supporting that on RTEMS 2011-05-13T13:57:50 what he's done is very tight and quite good 2011-05-13T13:57:54 verm__, will do. 2011-05-13T13:57:58 Nice 2011-05-13T13:58:04 kiwichris: pjd ported zfs to freebsd and has done many other major fs improvements he knows what he's doing. 2011-05-13T13:58:20 DrJoel: prove is a harness we can remove that 2011-05-13T13:59:05 DrJoel: his makefiles have linux support in them 2011-05-13T13:59:12 L84Supper: is that the host side of the equation? and you need to implement the embedded side 2011-05-13T13:59:14 i'm surprised it doesn't build, http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/src/tools/regression/pjdfstest/Makefile?rev=1.3;content-type=text%2Fplain 2011-05-13T13:59:21 freebsd, solaris, osx and linux there 2011-05-13T13:59:36 DrJoel: yes 2011-05-13T13:59:39 verm__: Fedora 14 doesn't have lpathconf. Must now have compiled recently on Linux. 2011-05-13T13:59:46 Cool! Sounds like fun. ;D 2011-05-13T14:01:07 hmm we should be able to lift lpathconf 2011-05-13T14:01:33 kiwichris: how much in/out network bandwith do I need for running buildbot? 2011-05-13T14:01:54 for what purpose? 2011-05-13T14:02:07 verm__: this was on Linux.. I just added it to the list of macros.. and submitted patch.. More concerned about errors when running the test . 2011-05-13T14:02:16 downloading changed toolset sources, uploading changed packages 2011-05-13T14:02:29 L84Supper: so you are using a small ARM to be the embedded controller for the IPMI? 2011-05-13T14:02:57 I can set up a mean build machine but I'm on 0,7 MBit/s DSL light 2011-05-13T14:03:07 peerst, do you mean RTEMS packages ? 2011-05-13T14:03:15 oh, hmm, we're not soliciting outside help for a buildslave currently 2011-05-13T14:03:33 peerst: we might though, for source-only builds 2011-05-13T14:03:48 that would require downstream data only, git checkouts 2011-05-13T14:03:52 verm__: so you will do regular FreeBSD builds at OAR? 2011-05-13T14:04:35 oh, freebsd i thought you were donating cpu 2011-05-13T14:04:40 kiwichris: yes once a regular build is set up it makes sense to also build packages 2011-05-13T14:04:50 that might be possible i would have to sort a lot out before we could do it though 2011-05-13T14:05:42 verm__: whats to sort out? 2011-05-13T14:05:46 DrJoel: small ARM soc for EC's such as NXP LPC20xx and larger devices for IPMI such as NXP LPC17xx or even Cortex8,9 soc's 2011-05-13T14:06:26 peerst: all our build machines are fedora 14, the tools are installed a certain way and buildbot assumes this 2011-05-13T14:06:51 hmm, let me sort this out 2011-05-13T14:06:57 kiwichris wrote a system to build the source rpms on freebsd though 2011-05-13T14:07:09 if you can get that working fine on freebsd -- there are several issues that i ran into 2011-05-13T14:07:10 DrJoel: the EC's have to be low cost as possible, the IPMI controllers just have to to support all the features, they have been 32b PPC or MIPS soc's 2011-05-13T14:07:18 with "tools" you mean the build-tools? 2011-05-13T14:07:22 and install the tools in the same way they're installed on redhat we can do this trivially 2011-05-13T14:07:22 yeah 2011-05-13T14:08:10 L84Supper: ok.. those should be good targets 2011-05-13T14:08:11 peerst, the tool uses the RPM spec file creating a local host specific script to build the tools from source 2011-05-13T14:08:30 peerst, I use on MacOS. 2011-05-13T14:08:32 when I'm building gcc etc, it would make most sense to go through ports which wants to install in /usr/local usually 2011-05-13T14:08:42 kiwichris: mee too 2011-05-13T14:09:11 peerst, yes it would make sense how-ever you need to keep the port in sync with RTEMS and that is no small task 2011-05-13T14:09:28 coreboot is being ported to larger ARM soc's with PCIe now, I'd like to keep ARM as the EC and IPMI controller of choice 2011-05-13T14:09:43 All the detail and detail is held in spec files in the RTEMS source tree 2011-05-13T14:09:55 usually I'm doing all the GUI stuff on MacOS including the X sever, most of development runs on FeeBSD boxes. 2011-05-13T14:10:21 hmm, maybe its best to do it in two steps 2011-05-13T14:10:24 I have moved all RTEMS work MacOS so it is portable. 2011-05-13T14:10:30 first run from the spec files 2011-05-13T14:10:56 The tool is in Python and structured as classes so you can have a class read the spec file 2011-05-13T14:11:25 then someday auto-convert the spec files to /usr/port files 2011-05-13T14:11:41 peerst: chris brought that up.. i looked at it 2011-05-13T14:11:52 it might be possible to modify the tool to automatically generate port Makefiles 2011-05-13T14:12:07 the best way to do it would be to template the Makefile and use the python tool to do version subsitution 2011-05-13T14:12:14 then build freebsd packages based off of that 2011-05-13T14:12:28 first get it running the Linux way on FreeBSD then make it more BSD'ish 2011-05-13T14:12:50 that would be the best way to do it yes 2011-05-13T14:13:38 and once we can generate /usr/port stuff automatically we can take over the (usually a bit stale) rtems tool ports that are already in FreeBSD 2011-05-13T14:14:19 and the autobuild proper FreeBSD packages 2011-05-13T14:14:23 brb 2011-05-13T14:14:58 *** 20QAAQWMR has left #rtems 2011-05-13T14:15:10 kiwichris: are you building easy to install *.dmg's for Mac? 2011-05-13T14:19:31 Not at the moment. The SpecBuilder tool creates a bz2 tar file you can just unpack. I have not because I would need to build them locally and then upload them. 2011-05-13T14:20:21 There are Macs in the US I may be able to access and could look at this but I have not done this yet. 2011-05-13T14:20:38 yeah thats the same problem I'm facing currently ... but in about a year they will have laid fiber to my village ... 2011-05-13T14:20:48 Nice. 2011-05-13T14:21:52 Yeah, waiting a really long time for this, having worarounds like my two bundled DSL 387kbit lines for 570? a month :-( 2011-05-13T14:21:54 kiwichris: if we can get a mac at OAR i can setup buildbot to do this 2011-05-13T14:22:09 if ralph changes the rpm spec we can automatically rebuild and put the .dmg up for download 2011-05-13T14:22:11 Nice. 2011-05-13T14:22:18 that's trivial to do 2011-05-13T14:22:24 having easy installable Mac tools would be nice. 2011-05-13T14:22:53 how often do the rpm specs change? 2011-05-13T14:23:07 no idea 2011-05-13T14:24:14 the question is also if its possible to reduce upload time with rsync (if only parts of the built tools change) 2011-05-13T14:26:09 but the they have to be uploaded as whole trees and not as .tar.bz files or such. 2011-05-13T14:28:18 brb phone call 2011-05-13T14:34:24 *** shayden has quit IRC 2011-05-13T16:05:36 *** DrJoel has quit IRC 2011-05-13T16:11:20 *** shayden has joined #rtems 2011-05-13T16:23:54 *** methril_work has quit IRC 2011-05-13T17:44:13 *** DrJoel has joined #rtems 2011-05-13T17:44:13 *** DrJoel has joined #rtems 2011-05-13T17:44:13 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DrJoel 2011-05-13T17:45:07 *** DrJoel has quit IRC 2011-05-13T20:47:06 *** antgreen has quit IRC 2011-05-13T20:47:22 *** antgreen has joined #rtems 2011-05-13T21:43:45 *** antgreen` has joined #rtems 2011-05-13T21:45:11 *** antgreen has quit IRC 2011-05-13T21:52:08 *** sqm has joined #rtems 2011-05-13T22:13:27 *** antgreen` has quit IRC 2011-05-14T00:50:06 *** sqm has quit IRC 2011-05-14T00:58:07 *** sqm has joined #rtems 2011-05-14T01:02:06 *** xiangfu has joined #rtems 2011-05-14T01:04:09 *** xiangfu has quit IRC 2011-05-14T01:07:10 *** sqm has quit IRC 2011-05-14T02:53:04 *** xiangfu has joined #rtems 2011-05-14T04:06:10 *** xiangfu has quit IRC 2011-05-14T05:16:33 *** panzon has quit IRC 2011-05-14T05:16:49 *** panzon has joined #rtems 2011-05-14T07:25:11 *** sqm has joined #rtems 2011-05-14T09:22:19 *** panzon has quit IRC 2011-05-14T10:12:38 *** lj8175 has joined #rtems 2011-05-14T10:29:28 *** lj8175 has quit IRC 2011-05-14T10:35:43 *** shayden has quit IRC 2011-05-14T12:05:10 *** sqm has quit IRC 2011-05-14T17:31:57 hi! 2011-05-14T18:37:00 kiwichris: around? 2011-05-14T18:37:03 kristianpaul: hello 2011-05-14T18:52:18 verm__: hi 2011-05-14T18:52:41 verm__: do you know how i can icrease the size of the IMFS? 2011-05-14T18:53:13 or should i implement ramdisk if i want a temporary directory ie as 64Mb of size? 2011-05-14T19:04:04 i have no idea, i'm only here to help out with testing/qa i've never run rtems :) 2011-05-14T19:04:33 if you're patient and hang around i'm sure someone will be able to answer your question, otherwise the mailing list is your best shot 2011-05-14T19:18:54 sure 2011-05-14T21:55:47 *** xiangfu has joined #rtems 2011-05-14T22:13:37 *** methril has quit IRC 2011-05-14T22:26:15 *** methril has joined #rtems 2011-05-15T01:33:40 *** xiangfu has quit IRC 2011-05-15T01:33:58 *** xiangfu has joined #rtems 2011-05-15T02:27:25 *** sqm has joined #rtems 2011-05-15T02:32:07 *** xiangfu has quit IRC 2011-05-15T07:11:12 *** xiangfu has joined #rtems 2011-05-15T09:33:12 *** lj8175 has joined #rtems 2011-05-15T10:05:26 *** kuzew has joined #rtems 2011-05-15T10:08:11 *** xiangfu has quit IRC 2011-05-15T10:26:42 *** shayden has joined #rtems 2011-05-15T10:52:05 *** lj8175 has quit IRC 2011-05-15T10:55:44 *** sqm has quit IRC 2011-05-15T16:52:50 kristianpaul, about ? 2011-05-15T16:59:52 kiwichris: about.. 2011-05-15T16:59:58 Yeah 2011-05-15T17:00:12 The IMFS uses what ever heap space it can get 2011-05-15T17:00:28 There is not preset size 2011-05-15T17:00:34 I need a 64Mb IMFS, or at least help on adding it as ramdisk, wich seems/proper the best choive 2011-05-15T17:00:38 odd 2011-05-15T17:00:39 hmm 2011-05-15T17:00:54 What is the purpose of the file system ? 2011-05-15T17:01:21 I need to dump some ADC readings to it 2011-05-15T17:01:29 for about 30 seconds 2011-05-15T17:01:42 I suggest you create a RAM disk and then format with RFS. 2011-05-15T17:01:45 ok 2011-05-15T17:01:51 The RFS is designed with performance in mind. 2011-05-15T17:02:19 There is an example of ramdisk instanciation, or wiki article should be okay? 2011-05-15T17:02:27 The IMFS is not suited to this. It is designed to be a root file system to hold a few nodes such as mount points 2011-05-15T17:02:33 ok 2011-05-15T17:02:53 In my ftp work area is the RFS test code. I will find a link 2011-05-15T17:03:13 http://www.rtems.org/ftp/pub/rtems/people/chrisj/file-system/rfs-20110315.tar.bz2 2011-05-15T17:03:35 thanks 2011-05-15T17:03:55 I use shell commands to format the disk. The direct mount call is not to hard. 2011-05-15T17:04:15 or i can add the shell comands to my Init function i think 2011-05-15T17:04:17 So you create a RAM disk, format it, make a mount point with mkdir when mount 2011-05-15T17:04:27 The example has this. 2011-05-15T17:04:51 I like shell commands because I can change them quickly and not change code 2011-05-15T17:05:33 I create a tar file of a shell script. You could just write a bit of C code and write that to the IMFS. 2011-05-15T17:05:49 By that I mean the script 2011-05-15T17:06:10 ah, that part (link tar script), i remenber a DrJoel post about it 2011-05-15T17:06:17 but not too much examples ;-) 2011-05-15T17:06:25 but yeah, a script is better 2011-05-15T17:06:30 That tarball has one 2011-05-15T17:06:36 cool! 2011-05-15T17:06:42 * kristianpaul checking tarball 2011-05-15T17:51:19 *** projectgus has joined #rtems 2011-05-15T20:46:09 *** projectgus has quit IRC 2011-05-15T20:49:25 *** projectgus has joined #rtems 2011-05-15T23:27:05 *** kristianpaul has quit IRC 2011-05-15T23:27:16 *** kristianpaul has joined #rtems 2011-05-15T23:27:16 *** kristianpaul has joined #rtems